The idiotic Right is determined to win the election for Obama. As most know by now Mr. R. Limbaugh called Georgetown student Sandra Fluke a “slut” because of her remarks to Congress on Georgetown’s policy of not covering contraception.
Obama promptly phoned her to show support. Clear to anyone who reads this blog, I’m no Obama fan. Nor do I care much if Obama truly felt any sympathy for Fluke. I suspect he didn’t. Fluke’s an adult, she testified before Congress, she can handle the blow back – or ought to be able to. That said, it was damn good politics on Obama’s part to call her.
Limbaugh and his ilk – Santorum comes to mind – have fallen into the most obvious of traps. The ongoing conversation about contraception was locked, loaded, and then unloaded on the Republicans, starting in early January when Stephanopoulos asked that bizarre question of Mitt Romney. Savvy GOP partisans should have seen this past month coming the moment Stephanopoulos pushed the follow-up question so hard. Apparently, there are no politically savvy Republicans left. Many Right wingers dashed in front of the Axelrod rifle with the glee of Mardi Gras drunks. They continue to run about asking, no – demanding – to be blown to bits.
I must admit to admiration for the Obama machine. What didn’t work with Occupy in the Fall – which could have been a much better set up for Obama’s class conflict meme – has worked masterfully with contraception. I’d not blame any moderate swing voter if she felt repulsion observing the Right Wing of the GOP and by default, Obama hopes, with the entire Republican Party. Any good politician in Obama’s shoes would have phoned Fluke and made damn sure the media knew about it. He’s adding to his lead among women in every news cycle now. And gassy chumps like Limbaugh are playing along like cheap…uh….
fill in your own descriptive noun.
I do not like Rush’s name calling but this Fluke is a 30 year old activist who wants free contraceptives – so my tax money and yours should pay this woman to engage to the tune of $3,000.00 over a 3 year period.
Sheesh…if it’s not Obamabots, it’s right-wing whack-jobs with small-penis issues. It must be election season!
That’s cheaper than a penile implant. And if it’s not done properly, every time you press your button, Rascal, your neighbor’s garage door goes up.
First of all, how does “my tax money and yours” pay for this woman’s contraceptives? Secondly, I think your numbers are way off. And thirdly, I’d much rather see taxpayers helping to foot the bill for contraception than the far, far greater cost of housing, food, medical, education and child care for the millions of people who keep having kids they can’t afford. Tomorrow morning I’ll be carrying groceries (for our local foodbank) to the public housing apts of 18-20 year olds that usually have at least 2 kids, and rarely a working husband. It’d be nice to see them try to break out of their pattern of poverty and finish their High School educations, but then, a lot of them are pregnant…again. Meanwhile, the state keeps coughing up the money for all their needs.
SoCalAnnie, maybe I’ll unwittingly see you in my near-downtown LA neighborhood. Good to know of the donations. I am hearing Fr. Gregory Boyle read aloud his “Tattoos on the Heart” collection of parables from the Eastside projects; I think of a family friend we helped to get her gang tattoos removed thanks to Fr. Boyle’s Homeboy Industries and related programs. She had her first child before 17. She knew all about contraception, but as with many boys and girls, men and women, the trouble is that educating does not translate into preventing. My college students also get into “trouble.” They are the products of the schools and sex-ed where I earlier taught. They know how and where to get free birth control. The question is whether they will use it. Is this “blaming the victim”?
How much can we encourage responsible behavior, when it comes down to sex? I certainly hope PP gets more funding than ever; we’ve given our share in our household. This is an issue, as JWS notes, that speaks to class and income, but also to our frustration with our bodies, our passions, and the persistent patterns of not planning, to take precautions to make so many of these “unplanned” pregnancies never happen.
When I taught at L.A. high schools, we had designated teachers with file drawers full of large boxes of condoms. Still, pressure grew for onsite childcare on LAUSD campuses, although funding lagged. I assume Georgetown law students with their erudition would also be able to avail themselves of similarly stocked clinics, or local PP providers. The “post-sexual revolution” appears (see my other post way down linked to the Ross Douthat NYT column) to have not brought about a concomitant rise in the consistent use of birth control among so many of those I teach; I drive home past teen moms at jr. high. The WIC store is down my street near that jr. high, across from BK accepting EBT cards. I wish my taxpayer (and insurance?) money would go far more to PP than to GR & WIC.
“…so my tax money and yours should pay this woman to engage to the tune of $3,000.00 over a 3 year period.
Fascinating comment, rascal. Do you have the same problem with your tax dollars going toward erectile dysfunction remedies and Viagra?
Also, “this woman to engage” is an odd locution, doncha think? Why don’t you just come out and say what you mean instead — “this slut to f*ck”. There, is that more accurate? Rush said it; why don’t you have the guts to do so instead of hiding behind the fig leaf of a ‘concerned taxpayer’ posture.
Come on NES, don’t make up stuff and try to attach it to someone the way Mouse does. It’s dishonest and it diminishes the chance for discussion of touchy issues with someone you disagree with. And isn’t that how we learn, how we can understand other ways of seeing an issue and maybe clarify our own position and arguments? Rascal’s post is respectful and forthright.
Rascal didn’t use vulgar words, in fact did just the opposite by condemning Limbaugh’s name calling at the outset.
And I agree with what Rascal wrote. Health care insurance is expensive and costs are rising, and one of the things a good HCR would have addressed is elective treatment and medication. I don’t want to pay for a 30 year old’s contraception if he or she can afford it with their own income (it certainly never crossed my mind that anybody but me should pay for my condoms after AIDS came on the scene), and I sure as hell don’t want to pay for anybody’s Viagra. I also don’t like paying for a generation of narcissist’s cosmetic surgeries (excluding procedures like breast reconstruction after cancer surgery) or procedures like in vitro fertilization, which is very costly. Now, I realize these things are unlikely to go the way I want but it isn’t unreasonable to suggest that people who have to struggle to pay their insurance premiums shouldn’t have to pay into insurance funds that dispense huge sums for elective –and sometimes frankly indulgent– procedures and prescriptions.
NES,
Perhaps you would prefer words like intercourse or f**k. I also don’t want to pay for viagra or any male erectile dysfunction. Ask yourself why contraceptives cost so much when they cost so little to make? Could the answer be BIG Pharma who is in bed with your fearless leader, obama. Your comments are in the same class as limbaugh and santoriam.
Uh oh.
“…your fearless leader, obama.”
Aaaaaaarrrrgggh! Foul calumny.
Now, Rascal, I know my response to you was sarcastic and sharp, but that’s no reason to insult me so grievously. Didn’t my disdainful mention of Obamabots unthread tip you off?
I think he meant “feckless loser”
Fair enough, Zal, I was a little sharp with Rascal. Had he phrased his objections as you did, I wouldn’t have been so quick to jump on him. He seemed a little too focused on her age and that she was getting it on at the cost of 1000/year.
Here’s the thing, there needs to be less selective criticism about what insurance does or should cover. Insurance plans cover many goods and services that only men use, but we don’t see women griping about it, incessantly. Yet when we’re talking about goods and services that women use, it suddenly becomes a tax and cost issue. I want to see Rascal get all riled up about having to pay more because men are getting free to low cost Viagra and penile implants, and then I’ll take him seriously on his objections to the likes of Fluke.
“I think he meant “feckless loser””
Ha! Now, that I would agree with. Rascal and I could definitely break bread over that sentiment.
NES, good point about selective criticism about what insurance should or should not cover. Where do you draw the line? I’m sure its just as unfair to have tax payers and other insurees pay for smokers health disasters like lung cancer and emphysema, or alcoholics liver problems, or obese people who eat junk food all day and have heart attacks and diabetes. Wheres the outrage over the cost of these self inflicted diseases?
NES, well said, “less selective criticism.” It infuriates me, too; always has. Not only about women’s needs versus men’s but anybody in power protecting their own sacred cows, from bullies on the playground all the way up to the Supreme Court.
See, I don’t agree with that, not least because as you point out where does one draw the line and who does the drawing?
I think it’s a mistake to conflate access to health care with moral judgment. Once a citizen is in need of medical care, with lung disease or liver disease, categorizing health care access by how they got that way is opening a big can of worms. If you nearly drown you should receive equal access to health care whether it happened by rescuing a child who fell in a river or if you were drunk and foolishly toppled into the river.
What I think HCR should have separated out of coverage from insurance that’s mandated is elective procedures and medications and the like. But that gets a big “boooooo!” in today’s America because the general population has a sense of entitlement that says whatever a rich person can afford access to, I should have access to. It’s part of what’s killing our bigger dream.
Zal and Rascal. Your whole premise is off. Contraception IS normal health care that’s being hijacked into some moral issue by some of the most repugnant, amoral people. Read this, then come back.
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2012/03/03/what-happens-when-you-fail-to-define-contraception-as-normal-healthcare/
Okay I read it and came back.
Is there something in there disputing my point? If so, I didn’t see it.
I never said birth control isn’t normal health care, I said when it’s used for contraception it’s an elective medication versus treatment –or preventative– for disease.
Then re-read it until you are disabused of the “elective” notion.
SophieCT, please quote directly from that piece, to show me what you think I’ve missed. I’ll be glad to agree you’re right or dispute it, but I don’t see where a case is made that explains how contraceptives, when used solely to prevent pregnancy, is anything but elective.
And I’m not sure if this has anything to do with the point you want me to see but I reiterate that I believe birth control should be easily available to all adult women and provided without charge to women who can’t afford it.
I’ve noticed that Romney has avoided going anywhere near this issue, which I think is the smart thing to do. Both the far left and the far right are using birth control as a political football. I refuse to get sucked into their vile manipulations. Besides, the people who aren’t political junkies don’t seem to be paying that much attention. They don’t listen to Rush, they’ve never heard of Sandra Fluke, they don’t vote in the primaries. They will only vote in November, by which time there will be different issues on the front burner. Unless both sides keep up this narrative for the next six months, I don’t think it will make that much of an impact.
Jen, I think Romney would like to avoid it, but he can’t really get around it. Look how John Stewart makes fun of him for flip flopping on the Blunt amendment:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/02/jon-stewart-rips-blunt-amendment_n_1315955.html?ref=comedy
Also, I heard about Lush Rumball and his disgusting remarks this morning, from several different media. I only just had time to check out my fav blogs a little while ago. The story is out there.
I agree that they are falling for Obama’s distraction trap. I also take the point that it is frankly a ridiculous optic to have a Georgetown law student whine about paying for contraception. Who is paying for her tuition? Tuition for 2011-2012 would be $45K.
http://gulc.lawschoolnumbers.com/
very good point.
I agree. The name calling was uncalled for but a better witness could have been someone who takes the pill for therapeutic reasons other than birth control ( it is prescribed as such), or a married woman making minimum wage who already has three children and cannot feed any more. When I saw the witness I thought why doesn’t she go to PP like everyone else in graduate school instead of complaining.
Who is paying for her tuition?
Student loans?
I don’t agree. Why is it any of our business how she pays for her tuition? The fact is, birth control pills are a legitimate drug to be covered by insurance. My insurance certainly covered them when I was in my 20s & 30s and there was never any religious/republican claptrap about it. Furthermore…they are NOT free. All insurance companies charge ever increasing co pays for prescription meds. We have Kaiser, we have one of the highest tiers of Kaiser, and our Rx co pays have doubled every year for the past 3 years.
It really pissed me off when I heard about LUSH RUMBALL’S disgusting, vile attack on this woman. He is a disgusting pig, hasn’t a shred of decency, goodness, or character & I hate his ugly, evil guts. There!
Why?
It’s not actually a fact, it’s an opinion. What’s the argument that supports that opinion?
I believe birth control should be provided for women who haven’t the financial means to buy it for themselves. Beyond that, I haven’t yet heard an argument that legitimizes coverage for all.
Oh fgs, Zal. Its a fact, becuz they have been prescribed by Drs and covered by insurances for d e c a d e s now. They were covered by insurance when I was in high school & I believe I’m close to your age. They’re a medical drug, and their usage needs to be prescribed and monitored by Drs., just like xanax and all the other “elective medications” need to be prescribed and monitored by Drs in Connecticut when they are taking care of their depressed rich patients, who could also probably afford to buy their own, but don’t, because prescription drugs are covered by our insurance plans, and thats the way its always been. Just like smokers get whatever they need for their health, and others who destroy their health in other unnecessary ways.
Your position is that doctors prescribing a medication for a particular purpose over a period of years makes it ipso facto a legitimate item for insurance coverage of that purpose? Sure about that?
Oh and BTW socal, whether or not it’s a legitimate item for coverage is an opinion no matter what doctors or insurance companies have done in the past.
A fact is something that is or that has happened: doctors have prescribed birth control and insurance companies have covered it for years.
An opinion is a belief or view formed about something: I believe everybody should have free birth control.
An opinion does not become a fact as a result of actions; they’re two different things.
Zal, here is my position: I am of the opinion that any procedures or medications, whether elective or not, that have been prescribed for you, in order to make you less cranky, are a perfectly ipso dipso quipso, and darn tootin’ legimate medical expense for insurance coverage and for that purpose, and therefore should be covered in full by your insurance carrier. And especially if it can be done without conflating morality. We don’t want any of that! And even though you’re already entitled…to everything, we want you to have access to a sense of humor. Seriously, its been part of the mandate since I was in High School, and you too! So don’t let them unlegitimize the coverage for you! Stick to your guns! Tell them not being cranky is not enough, you want to laugh, and you will laugh! That is my opinion, belief and view! And thats a damn fact!
You’re cracking me up, socal!
Is she complaining about coverage for pills or for contraception?
Pill are sometimes prescribed for hormonal imbalance. But what about other forms of prescription contraception – IUD, implants, etc?
Zal, it’s none of my business, but are you taking any meds? for anything? and do you have HC insurance?
I take meds for HTN. My doctor says that if I quit my job, my bp would most likely drop to the healthy level it was before I took this position. But I need to eat, pay the mortgage, utilities, pay for insurance, etc. Does that mean my medication is now an indulgence? or is it my job that is an indulgence? And at my age, I cannot get another job that will pay enough for me to pay my bills. So now does that mean whatever I do, people can point fingers and call me a drain on the “system”. If I work I have HTN and if I don’t, I’ll need public funding.But at least my blood pressure wil be normal. Then I’ll only have to wonder if my cancer will return. But that time, we’ll have a panel saying I’m only a “drain on the system” and it won’t be profitable or feasible to fund treatment.
BTW I don’t usually get involved in the back and forth between Zal and anyone, but in this case, I just wanted to add this somewhere near the onversation.
“But that time” should read But by that time…
Zal, it’s none of my business, but are you taking any meds? for anything? and do you have HC insurance?
I have health care insurance; I take no meds regularly. I’ve tried medication for a variety of health concerns but, so far anyway, side effects were at least as bothersome as the original problem and I’d rather deal with problems my body produces naturally than those created by Big Pharma. But when something comes up that medication might address effectively I’m not hesitant about trying it.
Of course medication for hypertension is not an indulgence.
And, like you and many others, I’ve made trade offs over the years to keep food on the table and a roof over my head. There are times in life we do what we have to do even if we pay a price, and those times can stretch to years. Through months of 1986 I was so ill all I could do was go to work and drop in bed. I was 30 and lifting my arms to wash my hair was more than I could manage some days. Life can be very hard and broadsides severe; my experience is if we make the right choices eventually a turn in the road opens onto a better landscape.
Years ago I took the pill for an ovarian cyst the size of a lemon. Painful SOB but the pill did indeed dissolve it. It kept me from surgery where I may have lost an ovary. I would guess that would have been more expensive. My insurance paid for it. And I didn’t need my boss’ permission or the pope’s permission or anybody’s permission. It was nobody’s business but mine and my doctor’s, which is how health care is supposed to work and how it always worked before people starting tamperin with it for better stockholder bottom lines. It was birth control technically…..for medical purposes. So how do people of ‘conscience’ who are employers handle that if all these laws people are floating around come to fruition? I didn’t hear anything about that in the ‘hearings’. Plenty of women are given the pill for medical issues, some of which are just too personal to mention here, but I’m sure if you all think about it, you get the picture.
Excellent point, Uppity.
Yes, thank you Uppity! Many women take it to treat a variety of issues, severe headaches, severe menstrual issues, acne.
Exactly on point. That is what I was trying to say only you did it perfectly. Thank you.
Uppity, you do recognize the difference between treating cancer and contraception don’t you?
Of course I don’t Zal. I’m just stupid. Surely you can see that.
Oh Upps! I’m dying here!
You’re very smart, clearly.
You’ve written a defense of birth control pills being covered by insurance, the defense being the use of the pill to treat illness. My response to that is reasonable and on point: there’s a difference between disease and contraception, and using the pill to treat the former does not legitimize the latter being a cost we should cover for men or women with the means to provide it for themselves.
(There might be an argument for insurance providing birth control pills to all women but yours isn’t it.)
Well, its certainly in an insurance companies best interest to provide contraception to the women it covers, who want it. A lot cheaper for them than 9 months of pre natal care (I was high risk for miscarriage, so mine was really expensive); the delivery, could be easy, might not, might need a C-section, lots more $. Ah, and here’s the real expense for the insurance company. Adding Junior to the parents insurance! Think of allllll those Dr visits, ER visits, surgeries, maybe drugs are needed (oooh! maybe birth control pills for a teen girl!). Maybe the child has a disability, maybe need surgery on both legs & need regular phys therapy and a whole slew of leg braces. Very pricey, those. We know from experience. And all of this, the insurance company gets to pay for, for some 21 years. Hmm…so what’s cheaper, splitting the cost of cheap bc pills with a patient, or paying for all that medical care???
Only if it’s not my boss’ or the pope’s or your rabbi’s business that I am hemorrhaging, Zal. It seems to me that, as someone mentioned, women are being singled out to explain away their lives for health care. They get raped, they have to ‘explain’ why they need an abortion, if they don’t want to “make lemonade’.. One would almost have to go to the middle east for that kind of treatment. Only difference is they will kill her, but then it’s starting to look like the only reason the far far right doesn’t do that is we have laws against it. Lucky deal for women. So far. And for gays. So far.
Uppity…..Zal knows what’s best for you, doncha know? If he can buy a purple condom in the bathroom of a quik-mart to solve his problem, you can forgo treatment for reproductive issues that involve BC pills/bc shot/IUD’s because he isn’t paying for your sex, and that’s that, daddy knows best. Now if it’s not just for sex, if it’s for all those other reasons that women use BC like menstrual cramping, regulating menstrual cycle, menstrual headaches, cysts, endometreosis, heavy menstrual bleeding, menstrual clotting, or any one of the many, many other menstrual issues that almost every woman experiences, you have to bring in a signed, dated and notarized permission slip, approved by your daddy or your priest or your preacher or your husband or your lover saying you have his permission.
Goddam it you Uppity women, get in your place
Funny, profit/loss is a Wall Streeter’s argument.
And a slippery slope for a liberal. Do we really want coverage determined by what’s most cost effective for insurance companies?
Hemorrhaging is the same as cancer or lung infection or a headache: of course treatment for disease should be covered.
Contraception is not the same. Is there a reason you aren’t addressing that?
I realize you haven’t attained a high level of professional success, Mouse, so this may have slipped your notice but I have a newsflash for you: a great many women have achieved positions of authority –not by bitching until their adversary gives up, as you claim to have been doing for six decades, but by actual achievement. And, today, adult women who own themselves and their power no longer need daddy’s or a husband’s approval to control whether or not to be pregnant.
“Hemorrhaging is the same as cancer or lung infection or a headache: of course treatment for disease should be covered.Contraception is not the same. Is there a reason you aren’t addressing that?”
Look Zal. You know absolutely nothing about women’s reproductive health. We don’t just have sex, smoke a cigarette and walk away. We, unlike you, get pregnant. Pregnancy has a 9 month life commitment, various health considerations and can not only be life threatening, but is also life altering and has an impact on the health of the woman.
Until you experience 40 years of bleeding from an orafice from 3 to 7 days every month, slothing off uterine lining and it’s associated fluids and clots, and all of the painful and medical effects of that process, you need to STFU. BC pills/IUD’s/BC shots have a positive, therapeutic health impact on women which you can’t even begin to imagine.
“And, today, adult women who own themselves and their power no longer need daddy’s or a husband’s approval to control whether or not to be pregnant.”
If you believe that then why are you advocating coverage for poor women only (even that you offered a bit late). Why aren’t you advocating coverage for all women. BC pills/Shots/IUD are an important component of women’s good health and can only be taken or used under a doctor’s supervision.
FYI. The Blunt Bill puts forth a conscience clause that would allow any employer, not only religious affiliated employers, to use conscience to deny coverage. I completely expect the bill will be used to cull patients and deny insurance coverage for disease that some consider to be self inflicted. STD’s, some forms of blood diseases like HIV, Hepatitis are some of the first to come to mind.
“I realize you haven’t attained a high level of professional success, Mouse, so this may have slipped your notice but I have a newsflash for you: a great many women have achieved positions of authority ”
First, you have no idea WTF you’re talking about. My personal success isn’t the issue here, but if it was I’d suggest to you that there are many more ways to measure success than accumulation of wealth. The issue here is coverage of reproductive health in health insurance. The Reproductive health and what’s in the best interest of Women’s reproductive health is something you know absolutely nothing about. You have no experience nor do you have the medical authority to opinionate.
Second, you’re a snob of the highest caliber and I’d measure my life accomplishments against yours anyday. And you’re an excellent BITCHER too Zal, you got that thing going on.
This kind of statement is how I know you never achieved success outside of petty victories that come from bitching people into submission the way you said you’ve done for 60 years.
One doesn’t have to be a woman to know something about women’s reproductive health. Some of us learn about many things that aren’t directly about us.
The birth control use I’ve been discussing is not treatment for a disease or a doctor’s diagnosis that it’s needed for prevention of disease, it’s the use of birth control for the prevention of contraception. From what I’ve read that’s all Ms Fluke has said she used it for, and in any event is the point I’ve made from the start.
“Mouse, so this may have slipped your notice but I have a newsflash for you: a great many women have achieved positions of authority ”
Sure!!! We make up 51% of the population and only a fraction of women are CEO’s, CFO’s in Major Companies. In the history of the SCOTUS we’ve had 4 female justices. Our U.S. Congress has 535 members, 93 are women, 17 in the Senate, 76 in the House. There have been less than 300 women to ever serve in the U.S. Congress. Of course we’ve only been able to vote for 90 years and income disparity between men and women, for the same work is well documented.
As for the Blunt Bill, as Bernie Sanders A TRUE FRIEND AND ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN said Thursday, if the number in the Senate were reversed and there were 17 men Senators and 83 women Senators the Blunt Bill would never have made it to a vote.
I’ve always advocated for comprehensive health care access for people who can’t afford it, and I include birth control (not excluding abortion) because as The Pill made clear in the 60s, sexually active women having the ability to prevent contraception can be integral to their power in directing their own life’s choices.
But when I advocate comprehensive health care access for those who can’t afford it I mean literally can’t afford it, not people who actually could afford it but believe they’re entitled to use funds to indulge themselves in some way and then receive a benefit that’s intended for those genuinely in need. Many Americans today have a very self-indulgent attitude about entitlement, not only government benefits but culture-wide, it’s a major problem that either will be addressed sensibly or will continue to deteriorate our society.
“The birth control use I’ve been discussing is not treatment for a disease or a doctor’s diagnosis that it’s needed for prevention of disease, it’s the use of birth control for the prevention of contraception.”
Zal, BC in women of reproductive years almost always is used to do more than prevent contraception, but even if it is about contraception only, it is a woman’s health issue.
Again, pregnancy not only has health risks, and manifests health issues that are not experienced apart from pregnancy, it also has an emotional impact on women and it impacts our ability to work and to provide for ourselves. Those are all medical considerations for the use of contraception.
In essence you’re suggesting that women must PROVE that they’re using contraception for a viable medical necessity as determined by mostly male legislators, otherwise it’s all about sex and you don’t want to pay for it in health coverage. Again, you have no practical experience and no medical experience and you and all other men who support Blunt need to back off.
“This kind of statement is how I know you never achieved success outside of petty victories that come from bitching people into submission the way you said you’ve done for 60 years.”
Zal, I’m not going to share my life experiences or my lifes work or commitments with you , as you’ve done here ad nauseum for the past year, It’s none of your business. You’re a pompous jerk and outside of bragging about accumulating money, you have no idea what victory and success others are achieving or have achieved that have nothing to do with what you consider success.
Massa, I gonna goes on back to the barn now. You has a good day!
More’s the pity that you spent 60 years bitching people into submission rather than using your power to accomplish bigger victories through substantive achievement. You might’ve made that fraction a little larger.
Zal writes: “But when I advocate comprehensive health care access for those who can’t afford it I mean literally can’t afford it, not people who actually could afford it but believe they’re entitled to use funds to indulge themselves in some way and then receive a benefit that’s intended for those genuinely in need.”
I love this because it’s quite a new tack for you, Zal. I distinctly remember you shaming Beata, who has a brain tumor, right here at this blog for needing financial assistance in healthcare coverage. Now you’re for the poor? Hahahahahhahaha!
And it’s really good to know that you consider contraception in healthcare an act of women “to indulge themselves”. You’re a KOOK!
I’ve suggested nothing of the kind.
You keep revealing that you think the chip on your shoulder is valid as argument.
There are lots of women doctors, and (as liberals used to argue) it’s a doctor –not legislators and not insurance companies– who should determine in consultation with their patient, when and how treatment and medication is prescribed and for what purpose.
It’s not about sex, it’s about birth control.
It’s funny you present it that way, though, because that’s what Limbaugh did, only of course he did it to advantage his point of view.
Zal writes: “More’s the pity that you spent 60 years bitching people into submission rather than using your power to accomplish bigger victories through substantive achievement. You might’ve made that fraction a little larger”
Zal, again you have no idea what you’re talking about. And you really have no sense of humor because if you did you wouldn’t take a joke between NES and I and try to turn it into a reality. You’re just an elitist snob who claims to have gone from street person to Goldman-Sucks, to rich. I won’t speculate as to how you climbed that ladder. Some things are better left un-said.
Your “distinct” memory has it wrong. (Of course it does: as a matter of course you make up stuff to suit your bias, and after years of doing that a mind can’t distinguish between what happened and what it made up.)
What I took issue with was Beata’s victim mentality, a thought process that leads some to make choices that overall are not in their best interest, not her needing or receiving financial assistance.
Here’s what you wrote Zal:
“But when I advocate comprehensive health care access for those who can’t afford it I mean literally can’t afford it, not people who actually could afford it but believe they’re entitled to use funds to indulge themselves in some way and then receive a benefit that’s intended for those genuinely in need.”
Since the discussion here is about Birth Control, What do you mean by “use funds to indulge themselves in some way and then receive a benefit that’s intended for those genuninely in need” ?
Since when is Contraception insurance coverage in Healthcare only covered for those in need? NEVER!!! Contraception is/has been covered in most health insurance plans for decades (exceptions have mostly been for self-insurers, usually religious orgs, who refuse to cover it) Most women who use contraception now, have that contraception covered under the health insurance plan. That is what the Blunt Bill wants to stop in the HealthCare reform bill. This argument is not poor women vs. women of means. This argument is whether or not Contraception is a woman’s health issue, and not as you obviously frame it above “entitled to use funds to indulge themselves in some way”. Plastic surgery for vanity is an indulgence. Contraception is a woman’s health issue.
“What I took issue with was Beata’s victim mentality, a thought process that leads some to make choices that overall are not in their best interest, not her needing or receiving financial assistance”
You’re so full of shit Zal, You’ve been beating down and looking down your nose at people, as you did when you criticized Beata, since you first arrived here. You’re a total snob.
And Excuse us Massa, we’s keep fogettin yous god. Only you knows why Beata needed assistance or if she understood what is in her “overall best interest” or whether she had a “victim mentality”.
Get on back to the penthouse massa, us littles people gotsa go to work.
No you’ve got that nuance wrong.
Cosmetic surgery (including for vanity) can be a health issue as much as birth control can be a health issue. For both, in some cases but by no means all, a good doctor will determine that treatment/medication is needed for good health.
But both, when not connected to prevention or treatment of disease, are elective.
Your memory of what I wrote in that discussion is wrong.
Go look it up, quote me directly. I know what I wrote, and I don’t have to look it up to know. Do you know why? Because it’s easy for truth tellers, people who don’t make up stuff, to remember what we said.
My comments about one’s thought process being free to make choices that are better for oneself, that are in one’s overall best interest, were in the context of choosing which candidate to vote for, not why Beata needed assistance. I have no idea why Beata didn’t have the means to pay for her health care herself, and I don’t care because it’s none of my business and was irrelevant to the point.
Zal writes: “, a good doctor will determine that treatment/medication is needed for good health.
Since you’re Marcus Welby reincarnated can you explain how, without a Doctors letter to the insurance company stating that this treatment is needed for good health, that under your premise stated above, a woman could get contraception without having to have permission? You stated in your initial argument to me that Permissioin would not be required.
Zal wrote: “And, today, adult women who own themselves and their power no longer need daddy’s or a husband’s approval to control whether or not to be pregnant.”
No, under your premise we just need a doctor to write a letter to the insurance company saying that we need contraception for disease prevention. Don’t you think that’s a bit of an infringement on Doc/Patient privilege and an invasion of privacy? Well, one good thing, I know a number of OB/GYNS and all will say a woman needs contraception for health purposes, physical, mental, emotional, whatever. The problem is the Blunt Bill does not allow for contraception for any reason, physical, mental, emotional, if the employer states it’s a violation of his conscience. That is basically the plan that many catholic orgs use now. No contraception for any purpose covered in Health Insurance. It AIN’T gonna happen Zal.
“I realize you haven’t attained a high level of professional success, Mouse,…. And, today, adult women who own themselves and their power no longer need daddy’s or a husband’s approval to control whether or not to be pregnant.”
Ugh! That’s a cheap rhetorical trick that’s beneath you, Zal. What does “professional success” have to do with anything being argued on this thread? I don’t know what Mouse did for a living, but I’m confident that she was very successful at it and had a rich career. I’m also confident that she has always owned her power and, as an adult, has never needed a man’s approval for pretty much anything. Lastly, she’s more than a worthy opponent for anyone debating any topic here — frankly, the breadth and depth of her knowledge in matters political and sociological should be the envy of everyone here.
I’m surrounded by successful professional women every day of my life — that they had 20 percent of Mouse’s gumption, independence, and debating appetite and skills.
Erratum: “but that they had 20 percent of….”
NES: you know darned well that’s not beneath me! One of the things that sets me apart from the snobs Mouse is so infuriated at is I’m perfectly willing and able, and delighted, to jump into the mud and hurl it around with the worst of ‘em. Since second grade (there’s a story I’ll spare you!) and an unexpected victory, I take no prisoners when a bully blusters around a playground. I figured them out, way back then, and they’re all the same.
Mouse is obviously someone born with above average natural intelligence and personal strength. She could’ve been amazing! And probably was, in her prime. What somebody like that can accomplish! But she said it excellently well herself when she boasted that for six decades she’d bitched her way into subduing adversaries. What a waste. She could’ve expanded her knowledge and her power, created comfort for herself and those she loved, and maybe larger things as well; but instead all she did was nurse her grudges into bitterness, attacking proxies wherever she finds them, and use her power for bitching at people to get them to shut up.
Now she’s in the beginning her last chapter, and rather than learn things that could make her life satisfying and her mind rich and her body comfortable, she lashes out pointlessly at those she could learn from. Ultimately, despite the great gifts of intelligence and powerful personality, she’s just a small person who thinks having the last word is winning something worthwhile.
She’s fun to play with when the mood strikes, a rag mouse stuffed with dried out catnip, but I have no respect at all for someone who squanders their gifts and tries to bully good people.
“She could’ve been amazing! And probably was, in her prime.”
I am more amazing asleep than you are awake.
“What somebody like that can accomplish!”
Not can accomplish nincompoop, Did accomplish.
“But she said it excellently well herself when she boasted that for six decades she’d bitched her way into subduing adversaries.”
You know that was a joke between NES and I regarding my advanced years and the lack of physical prowess required to kick ass, but if you want to play it that way have at it, There is absolutely nothing you can say or do to hurt me.
“What a waste. She could’ve expanded her knowledge and her power, created comfort for herself and those she loved, and maybe larger things as well; but instead all she did was nurse her grudges into bitterness,”
That’s about the saddest bunch of assumptions, made by a complete ass who knows nothing about me, that I’ve ever read.
” attacking proxies wherever she finds them, and use her power for bitching at people to get them to shut up”
Let’s see, you’ve bitched, condescended to and/or sat in judgment of PJ, SoCal, Beata, NES you even tried it with Uppity,(but she cows you, you obviously feel very inferior to her) and anyone else whose notions don’t mess exactly with your own. You flaunt your “business acumen” and “wealth” as your superior quality for sitting in judgment of others, when everyone of any emotional maturity knows that neither business acumen or wealth is a meaningful measure of success. I find you quite a pitiable person, who gets more spark when engaging women in argument than men. You don’t do that often, is it fear?
Again, I’m not going to share the details of my career, my life, my family or my successes, failures or accomplishments with you, because it’s none of your business and it wouldn’t matter anyway Massa because you be the King and we be nothin.
“Lastly, she’s more than a worthy opponent for anyone debating any topic here — frankly, the breadth and depth of her knowledge in matters political and sociological should be the envy of everyone here.”
NES…I appreciate your generous defense of me, but Zal doesn’t care what you think. He’s too busy looking in the mirror and preening. Unless you have something of value to offer him like a fine wine or beluga, he’s not interested.
“He’s adding to his lead among women in every news cycle now. And gassy chumps like Limbaugh are playing along like cheap…uh….” Exactly!
I agree with Jen – Romney is smart to avoid going anyway near this issue.
“anywhere”
Omg.
What a slut.
“What a slut.”
Ahhh…pitch perfect comedic timing. Always a pleasure to see.
Calling this woman a slut because she uses birth control is a sign of someone who is really stupid about birth control and showing it. If a woman takes the birth control pill, it costs EXACTLY the same if she sleeps with one man or she sleeps with 20 men. So Rush, you, me, or anyone else has no idea if she “had guys line up around the corner” or however the hell he said it. That was just plain ignorant and that is also just exactly what Rush is.
I’d also like to point out that Fluke is indeed an “activist”. Which is a filthy filthy word, even if your ‘activism’ involves fighting domestic violence and child trafficking. what a vile ‘activist’ this woman is.
That dog DOES have a great life! Cover MY eyes!! lol!
off topic,…but i just woke at 5am and can’t go back to sleep so what the hell…
two pics of Bob Barker playing:
http://losangelesgd.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/bob-barker/
http://losangelesgd.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/bob-barker-plays-oceanside-long-beach/
I saw him up at twitter and thought, this dog has some great life. Had go cover my dog’s eyes…
Awww, Bob Barker. I especially love the exuberant shot of him at the beach.
Bob Barker is a doll. Why are we all still up?!?! Damn Ambien! All it did was make me laugh and act goofy for 3 hours. Dang, I really need to get some sleep.
socal,
Just curious. Who pays for your Ambien?
Just curious, CK, are you kidding me?
CK makes an excellent point. A shame it careened over your head.
Nobody should have to pay for a stranger’s sleeping pills.
So clear this up for us, Mouse. Do you think you or socal or anybody else is entitled to have us provide you with Pharma’s answer to sleep problems?
“CK makes an excellent point. A shame it careened over your head.”
If Ck wasn’t making a joke, thenCK makes a terrible point and of course you’re all on board with it because you’re an elitist snob.
First, neither you nor CK know a damn thing about the nature of SoCal health insurance coverage or her health condition associated with the medication. You do not know her premium cost, her copay cost, not the meds available through her HC plan that she likely pays dearly for. So it’s really none of your damned business.
Second, Sleep deprivation and Insomnia are serious disorders and lead to serious health and psychological conditions. Google it nincompoop.
Third. Even in the Affordable Healthcare act we all pay for our insurance coverage, except the poorest of the poor who are eligible for medicaid through the healthcare act. So stop acting like somebody is going to sneak into your bunker and take your stuff to pay for their sleep meds or their birth control. You’re the most obnoxious, pompous ass I’ve ever seen.
First, if you had any power of observation you’d have noticed I regularly post in the wee hours of the morning. i’m familiar with insomnia.
Secondly, details of socal’s insurance isn’t the point. I have great insurance and that’s not the point either. The point is the current structure of our health care system, including Pharma and Big Insurance, is ruinous and contributing to the destruction of the middle class. Changes are needed but won’t happen because of idiotic greed, which you demonstrate every bit as much as a Wall Streeter or corporate fat cat.
In the words of Sinead O’Connor, “Why don’t you go bore the shit out of somebody else.”
CK, my initial response to you was NOYFB, but I changed my mind. I have Kaiser health insurance, and I pay 20 bucks for that particular Rx and Kaiser pays whatever tiny portion is left from the great they get from the Pharmas. Same thing for all of us who have insurance because THAT IS THE DEAL THEY AGREE TO. They take large amounts of our money, and then help pay for WHATEVER our Doctors PRESCRIBE for us. THAT IS THE DEAL, THAT IS HOW ITS ALWAYS WORKED AND I DON’T SEE ANY INS COS. GOING BROKE OVER IT! NEITHER YOU, NOR ZAL, NOR “TAXPAYERS” are put out in the least over my family’s medical expenses. We get NO GOVT benefits of ANY kind. NOT even anything for our disabled child, not to mention that out of 7 years of physical therapy he has needed, we have paid for ourselves, kaiser only paid for 1 months worth. Becuz of US, and our decisions, not you, not the bi-polar one in CT, not taxpayers, our child is doing marvelously well for someone born with Muscular Dystrophy and having to deal with a terrible tragedy at the start of his teens, namely the horrific death of his older brother. We don’t even get the benefit of education for our son because WE choose to give him a PRIVATE SCHOOL education.
btw, if I wanted a prescription for Birth Control pills, I could have one and Kaiser would pay for part of that, furthermore, my Dr, a brilliant and compassionate woman, would gladly prescribe for me anything I wanted that would make me feel better. She gives me Ambien whenever I ask for it becuz she is my Dr, NOT YOU, NOT ZAL, NOT TAXPAYERS, knows full well what is best for ME. And she knows that the trauma I have been through, namely: having to desperately search for a missing child for 3 days and nights, including arranging search parties of hundreds of people and HIRING OUR OWN HELICOPTERS (and riding in them) to search the Santa Monica Mountains for him becuz the Mother-fucking Los Angeles County Sheriffs-to-the-Stars refused to help look for him, send out Search & Rescue (who wanted to look for him & actually did on their own) or open a missing person case. And then after 3 MIND BLOWINGLY HORRIFIC DAYS AND NIGHTS the supreme horror of being the the one, along with your other 13 year old child, to find your beloved and darling step child, that you helped raise and love, DEAD, BROKEN, BLED OUT, AND DECOMPOSED in his car off a very famous street that the dip shit cops (that knew he was missing) drive by several times a day…yes, that trauma just might cause her patient severe headaches, nightmares and sleeplessness, and that therefore, my other health factors taken into consideration, that Ambien might be a good choice for me. That is my Drs choice, not yours, not Zals, not taxpayers. And if anyone doesn’t like it, that is just too, too fucking bad, isn’t it? Because, as is the right of every other woman in this country, my medical decisions WILL be made by my Dr and myself.
socal ~ I forget from time to time, everything you have gone through. It resides in the back of my mind with the other bitsand peices that contribute to my fondness for people I ‘know”. I’m sorry you felt compelled to repeat it here.
Thanks leslie. It didn’t pain me to say that, because I think of him everyday and always will, and we are strong people and have pushed on with our lives, which are very full and rewarding. That was just my FU to all the judgemental types who think they know what is best for other people. I made the comment about being on Ambien light heartedly last nite, becuz I was up all nite and it made me goofy. Never dreamed it would set people off. Imagine caring what Rx other people take!
Goodtime Limbaugh may have bitten off more than even he can chew. And you know that’s a wad:
From Raw:
“Mattress retailer Sleep Train was the first to drop Limbaugh’s program after he called law student Sandra Fluke a “slut” for testifying against allowing employers to opt out of providing birth control under employees’ health insurance.
That firm is now being joined by other companies that appear to be wary of the negative publicity surrounding the Fluke affair. Sleep Train tweeted on Friday, “Recent comments by Rush Limbaugh do not align w/our values, so we made decision to immediately suspend all advertising on that program.”
A representative of Quicken Loans similarly tweeted, “Due to continued inflammatory comments– along w/valuable feedback from clients & team members– QL has suspended ads on Rush Limbaugh program.”
Even the Cleveland Cavaliers have now dropped Limbaugh, with the basketball team’s majority owner also citing Limbaugh’s “inflammatory comments.”
Other firms have replieed to customer inquiries by saying that they are reevaluating their advertising. According to Think Progress, however, several companies have yet to respond in any way to the controversy, including Carbonite, LegalZoom.com, and AutoZone.
Update: A Raw reader has written to say that he had expressed his concerns to Carbonite and received a reply saying, “We do not endorse political views or opinions of the companies, magazines, newspapers, TV stations or radio stations that we advertise on. We simply choose a range of programs designed to reach a broad range of people so they might hear about Carbonite.”
Update #2: At 9:00 pm, Citrix (GoToMeeting) tweeted, “We have listened to our customers & have decided to cease our advertising on The Rush Limbaugh Show immediately.”
Update #3: At 10:00 pm, Legal Zoom tweeted, “As of today, LegalZoom has suspended all advertising on the Rush Limbaugh show.”
Update #4: AutoZone has also indicated that it does not knowingly advertise in Limbaugh’s show.
The marketplace speaks.
That’s awesome. Thanks for posting, Mouse!
You’re quite welcome PJ
Hey Mouse, didn’t you swear you’d stay off the Internet during your trip?
Don’t let the guy get you down or agitated — it ain’t worth it.
“Don’t let the guy get you down or agitated — it ain’t worth it”
You know he isn’t capable of getting me down or agitated. He’s nothing more than a gnat on my old ass, and even less than that in the big scheme of things
Haven’t left on the road trip yet, but I think I’ll close it down now. See y’all in a few weeks
Take care & peace
Have a good trip, Mouse!
I’m glad you were “here” today!
That is great news! Thanks My Mouse! Hope you have a great time!
[Excerpt]
“But the Taliban know that one way to drive the Americans out is to make such killings a regular occurrence. If they’ve got more sleeper agents in reserve, they’ll be rolling them out in the coming days. The Pentagon recently released data showing that 75% of the more than 45 so-called “green-on-blue” attacks since 2007 have happened in the last two years.
‘The risk is so high that we may discover it through hard lessons — a.k.a. lives of senior officers and NCOs who would run the [U.S.] Army if they are not killed by the people they are advising,” someone from Afghanistan anonymously posts on Best Defense. ‘”No one wants to talk about the big elephant in the room: How many infiltrators or complicit Taliban really are in the ANSF [Afghan National Security Forces]. Is it really worth the risk to put leaders our there like this?’”
Sorry…here’s the link that I intended to put above the quoted excerpt. http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2012/03/02/green-on-blue/
I continue to think the situation in Afghanistan is becoming intolerable, and that are soldiers are now sitting ducks. We need to get them out; either that or purge the bases of Afghans (which may be logistically unfeasible at this late stage).
Love the First Amendment!
http://news.yahoo.com/hell-barack-row-over-washington-metro-ad-051919392.html
The first pills I bought, were after I was married and they cost 12 dollars. In the scheme of things, they should be even cheaper today. I already had two children, and was trying to form a career, so I could support myself and my children, and get out of lousy marriage.. My then husband was not going to go willingly, I knew that.
Prior to that, even though my generation broke its’ share of rules, we, at least, knew what the rules Were. The first being ‘actions have consequences’. The second rule for me was my mother’s warning, ‘be careful how you make your bed, because you will have to lie in it.’ Which is essentially the same as the first rule. Later, raising a tribe of girls, we had one rule, we didn’t reward bad behavior, ever. Which is a re-iteration of all of the above.. Simplicity is very effective. I still regret my tendency to have to learn everything the hard way.
And they probably would be that cheap today if the cost to consumers wasn’t hidden in “benefits.”
We pay a heavy price for this structure, which convinces people they’re getting something for free but in fact it keeps the citizenry quiet (even defending it) while health care costs rise obscenely high and going higher and Big Pharma and Big Insurance rake in obscene profits.
I had been married for a year before I began taking “the Pill”. A friend of mine – also married – got pregnant and her husband, who did not want to pay for “the Pill” became furious that she “got pregnant” and insisted she obtain an abortion. This was not legal in Illinois at the time and so I drove her to another state so she could terminate the preganancy because her husband would not. (It was HER fault she was pregnant doncha know and he was not about to get her the help he wanted her to have. Oh, and he was a big shot attorney in Chgo at the time.) I also helped her with the $ because she wasn’t working – HE was.
I guess I’m saying this because there are worse things than using bc for contraception. Even if that is the reason for using that medication. And like Hillary and Bill, I’d like to see abortion available, legal and RARE. But I’d rather not use it for population control or “birth control”.
Any woman whose husband brings in all the income and won’t pay for birth control that she wants has made a serious mistake.
So was she able to teach him how wrong he was or did she leave that husband? Or is she still with him in the same situation?
They divorced a year later. But he left her. She wanted to return to school and he wanted her barefoot in the bedroom and busy in the kitchen – but NOT pregnant.
I’m glad he left her; he sounds like an asshole. Of course being left is painful but IMO it was lucky for her. I hope she used the opportunity to discover the power inherent in independence.
“CK makes an excellent point. A shame it careened over your head.
Nobody should have to pay for a stranger’s sleeping pills.
So clear this up for us, Mouse. Do you think you or socal or anybody else is entitled to have us provide you with Pharma’s answer to sleep problems?”
You have made some dumb ass comments in your time here Zal-Adonis (?!?) but this is just over the fucking top bullshit. A really damn shame that the truth and common sense are a l w a y s careening over your head. You really don’t have an ounce of honesty and your ridiculous attempts at bullying others into buying your completely distorted points of views always fall flat. Other people paying for my sleeping pills? What a crock of shit. Since all our drugs are now made in Thailand, India and China, I doubt if even Kaiser is paying for them, they’re probably making a profit off them. I would be really happy though, to have part of my tax $ go to pay for your bi-polar meds, cuz frankly, I think it would be of benefit to society, as I joked about last nite.
And lastly, before I start ignoring you again, there is this little nugget:
“Changes are needed but won’t happen because of idiotic greed, which you demonstrate every bit as much as a Wall Streeter or corporate fat cat.”
Everyone is my household is still screaming with laughter over that nonsensical bs, but you put it up here about every other week, in your pathetic attempt to try to convince yourself that yes, you Wall St’ers and “corp fat cats” aren’t any more responsible for the horrendous mess our economy is in than us regular folks in America. Yeah, you are more responsible…waaaaay more responsible, for bleeding the working class dry and making bank off your bullshit bundles of nothing. You call Mouse greedy?!?!? She is one of the most down to earth, decent, happy-with -the-simple-things-of-life, people I can imagine. You have the gall to compare people like mouse ad me with the skanks that have sucked this country dry? Nice try, Adonis, but we aren’t buying that crap here. Enjoy working for that wretched, selfish, lunatic Ron Paul. I’m not at all surprised you have joined your yoke to his bull, becuz you are exactly the type of judgemental, scary Ron Paul supporter that JWS wrote a piece about here a while back. Attacking people here with no provocation, starting huge arguments, when others are joking around, trying to have a good time. Never looking at anything with a sense of proportion, or humor, just like Ron Paul.
I don’t attack anybody here or elsewhere without provocation.
But it’s a lot of fun watching how bullies like Mouse react when they attack someone who attacks back. I do it for all those who can’t.
socal…
APPLAUSE!!
Even with all the fighting, this was an interesting thread. I was just thinking, and I do swear this on my entire deceased family, in the past decade I have paid six figures into health care coverage – single pay. If you don’t believe me, go to the NYS department of insurance and click on Health Care providers, where you will see several companies that own health care in new york and provide what smacks suspiciously of price-fixing, since you can’t get a decend single pay policy for less than a thousand, up to four thousand for a family. Anyways, my benefit for paying out all this money has been a checkup every year, and part of that is out of pocket. When I do the math, I am really hard pressed to imagine the taxpayers will ever be paying for anything I do medically right now, as I have already been sucker-punched to pay for it ahead of time myself.
That’s depressing, six figures for a decade of insurance, and another good eye opener.
This is what I’m talking about. Health Care Reform should have made that a bad story from the past but instead it’s a harbinger of worse to come since we’re continuing on with the same horrible structure. We need major changes (I’m aware they’re not going to happen) but everybody wants everybody else to do the sacrificing. We’re no longer a problem solving society.
I add to calm this rhetorical fire a column by the NYT’s resident conservative, Ross Douthat. Don’t blame the messenger; I like to keep a worthy discussion going. I also like one that steers away from personal attacks to focus on the issues raised by JWS a hundred-odd posts ago. I figure few on even this contentious forum will disagree with the source Douthat cites, the Guttmacher Institute.
Douthat, with whom I often disagree, here made me pause. He raises pithily the problems of both the left and right in assuming that more access to contraception automatically results in fewer abortions, “realities liberals should keep in mind when tempted to rail against conservatives for rejecting the intuitive-seeming promise of ‘more condoms, fewer abortions.’ What’s intuitive isn’t always true, and if social conservatives haven’t figured out how to make all good things go together in post-sexual-revolution America, neither have social liberals.” P.S. I commented above to SoCalAnnie about some of the revolution’s realities I see where I live and teach daily. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-safe-legal-rare-illusion.html
CNN projects that Mitt Romney will win Washington state.
Oh I forgot about their Sat primary. What a good idea. I’m not surprised Wash went for Romney. I lived there for 5 years and thought the people were middle of the roaders.
Also, thanks for your comments upthread! {{hugs}}
{{hugs}} back at ya!
Okay dokey then…So truth from my perspective: It would be foolish for me to intone an opinion about matters so personal…Medical issues, contraception, calling a person a slut on nationwide radio, me calling someone a gasbag etc…..then insist – or assume it were even possible – the thread on the post could avoid being personal. I don’t want to do that anyway. I tried. I hated it. The conversation on this thread is quite interesting and I’ve learned some things… I’ll just say that people here dish it out and dish it back. As a small d democrat this has more value to me than worrying about if it goes too far. If this were a dinner party I was hosting the ground rules would be markedly more strict. It’s a blog, not a dinner party. (Maybe that should be my tagline.)
If I have a desire it’s that these types of threads lean more toward Prime Minister’s Question hour – which get quite rowdy – and away from Jerry Springer. That seems to be mostly true. I would say “gird your loins and go at it” but everyone’s already done that so it’s redundant. I agree with some people here more than others. So what? I really admire how fierce everyone is.
Anyway: politically this name calling event has been something to watch today. Limbaugh blowback was much fiercer than he expected i bet. Sponsors dropped like Passionflower on the witness stand. (Bonus points for anyone who gets that reference) and he apologized. That’s money talking right there. Whatever one thinks of Fluke and Limbaugh – Obama’s team won the day. Hope and Change will never round up the base again but stuff like this will…and has. That phone call was wicked smart politics. Romney is one smart cookie too for avoiding these eruptions wherever humanly possible given his political party’s make up. I’m looking forward to seeing how social issues play in the Fall. Obama needs them and they’ve helped him so far. My sense is that one thing that scares Team Obi about Romney is that Romney doesn’t scare up a “Limbaugh-esque” reaction from the Progs. It’s easy to mock Romney but hard to vilify him. No social issue explosions and Obama has to run on the economy which is what they are doing their level best to avoid. Team Obi will try from every angle to trip up Romney on social issues…this includes his media outlets like the NBC networks. The progs are back in form too. I mean when Olbermann threatened H. Clinton’s life or when Palin was call a c*nt at rallies the facebook twitter brigade was silent. Funny how many are suddenly concerned about how women are treated. My hunch is that the progs will get in a few good licks as Romney is not much of a progressive – but they’ll slowly slide into Mormon bashing as the go to outlet for backdoor Obama adoration.
We’ll see. This was a good day to observe how politics works in this country in 2012.
Joh the hash tage #flushrushnow was relentless and the sponsors were dropping like flies.
tage = tag. I gotta stop touch typing in the dark.
Some of the stories raised here have been unbearably tragic. SoCal you have my heartfelt sympathy. People who have never been step-parents may not know how the child of your heart can be just as dear as the child of your womb.
But in the interest of fairness, anyone here could make an off the cuff remark that will unintentionally cause pain. Blogs, FB, whatever, have created such a strange and mostly faux intimacy, that hurt or distress is caused where none is intended. I am not exactly Prom Queen around here either, but I’m okay with that. I enjoy most of the posts and always look forward to John’s take on the events of the day. I respect Zal’s posts because they show contemplation of important issues, and his strength in not pandering to popular opinion is admirable.. Who wants a political blog that is a mutual admiration clique ?Differences of opionion keep things interesting, at times, even enlightening.
Thanks Sophie. We may not always agree, but I appreciate you for your thick skin and general goodness. This is definitely not a blog for softies, I think my first time commenting here was hilariously scrappy. This is a great place for information and debate, and compared to Huffpo & NastyKos in ’08, a warm family circle!
Maybe I’m just getting old, but please listen to yourselves..Women this, women that, up with women! Is so last century. Sometimes women are victims…of a crime or a rapist, or an abusive husband, they are blameless. But this ‘women as victims’ meme is not going to fly for long.or if it does, my generation’s courage was for naught. .Women and men are both victims sometimes, of poor judgement, and stupid behavior. We’ve all done it, but those who keep repeating their mistakes and do not learn from them, are nutjobs not victims. We are now told we have to give up movie nights, roast beef, a gas fill up, or whatever it takes, to pay increased premiums for students’ promiscuity.. We should say ‘thank you’ nicely, because it’s cheaper than abortion or supporting more babies on welfare. No one is willing to make the case anymore that a drunken hookup is not a ‘right.’, and too many of them cause loss of self and spirit,not to mention disease.. Why are all of us here so dedicated to marriage for everyone if hooking up is such a treat ?
When did we become afraid of our children ? Bribery and moral equivalency are now acceptable, since when ? I’m no saint, but I still feel sad for the day that sex and love got divorced, both are so much better together. Even sex and ‘like’ can work, but sex and indifference ? Was that what the hard work of feminism accomplished ? Damn, I wasted a bunch of time, if it was.
Sorry, sophie… but it is *you* that is so last century. People aren’t down with the anti-women rhetoric anymore. It may have worked in the past, but no more. Sister.
How did this turn into an argument about “students’ promiscuity”?? And does the need for birth control now = immoral and indifferent?? “Drunken hookups”???? What did I miss here?
Maybe we should bring back these swell training movies!
ROTFL, imust!
I know I’m late to the party, but John your instincts are right that Obama doesn’t care about Fluke — ’cause where was his outrage when all his supporters (including Bill Maher) were calling Hillary & Sarah Palin c*nts — they were even wearing “Sarah Palin is a C*nt” t-shirts during the GE. Where were all the sympathy & the phone calls then?
I’m not going to address the contraception issue, because I sincerely believe it is a distraction manufactured by the Obama campaign to take the focus off of his record — he’s proven to me over & over again since the 2008 primary he doesn’t give a sh!t about women or women’s rights. And any of y’all who want to believe that now in 2012 when he FINALLY, for the first time in his life, has a record to run on & it ain’t full of the “healing the earth” accomplishments he promised, that he ALL OF A SUDDEN gives a sh!t about women, you go right ahead. I’m going to agree to disagree on that one.
Of course Obama doesn’t give a shit about women. I don’t think most of us would disagree about that. But it was a savvy play… distracting from his record. And the right is playing along.
Let me repeat: The right is playing along.
Yeah, well, PJ I was addressing John– specifically his line:
But it isn’t just the Right that is playing along — the Left is playing along too.
I’ve had insurance my entire life — first through my parents & then through my own employment. Over the last 18 years I’ve had 5 different employers and, hence, 5 different insurance plans. One of those 5 plans covered the pill — ONE. With the other 4 I paid the full price each month. Fair? Nope. But this hysteria on the Left that anyone is somehow “taking away” something that women already have is a bunch of bullsh!t, and the unfairness that I have to pay for the pill each month sure as hell isn’t anything that is so important as to make me vote for one party over the other.
Let me repeat: The Left is playing along too.
Nobody has to be valedictorian to recognize Obama started this deliberately for a detour. But when laws are being made as a result of his trick…laws that force women to have vaginal probes and when women are being increasingly forced to explain to their Elders why they need certain health care, ahd when laws that make killing an abortion doctor “justifiable homicide”, and girl scouts are declared a lesbian conspiracy or being voted on, to just say “I think I won’t play along” is just plain stupid. These are real laws and real dangers. When a crackpot submits a bill that makes ANY Boss decide what’s covered, these things canNOT be ignored, even if they are the residual effect of a sinister and deliberate ploy by Barack Obama. These are actions that take rights away from women and continue to open more doors to making women chattel. They cannot be ignored, no matter HOW they to to that point. To tell women to just ignore things and put their rights on ‘hold’ …AGAIN…because Obama hatched a snister trick, or because there are “bigger issues” is just plain dangerous to women’s rights. There IS nothing more important than my rights and your rights and the rights of all women to refuse to be controlled by any patriarchy from either party. It’s being guilted into “putting this aside for the bigger good” that got women in trouble during the past decade. It’s time not to stand for it. When OWS told women not to report their rapes because it hurts “The Cause,” we were looking at a glaring example of exactly what I am saying.
Well said, Uppity!
P J… I understand your point, but for those who have spent careers cleaning up the mess from ‘all sex, all the time’, it is not valid or amusing..The people being treated aren’t laughing either.
Firstly, PP provides the Pill for around 21 dollars a month in DC, about the price of a delivered pizza, maybe less. Secondly, the Pill provides no protection from std’s, which are on the rise everywhere. This is also true for the male partner, many of whom need a wake up call, before they get a nasty bit of news. Maybe I am old fashioned, in my younger days I never envisioned starting a support and counseling group for teenagers with AIDS, now, been there, done that.
These days, everyone ‘assumes’ teenagers are savvy about sex, many of them are not. More education is needed in this area, a lot more,.
“More education is needed in this area, a lot more”
I agree, sophie.
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_20083126?source=commented-
That’s why 28 states, including Colorado, require insurers to cover contraception. And it’s why the Obama administration was right to require all secular organizations to cover contraceptive care as a highly desirable public health goal.
Sure, except the obama administration only did it because it provided fodder for their staged Kulturkampf to distract voters’ attention from the economy, jobs, gas prices, trampling of civil liberties, etc. obama and his gangsters don’t give a flying frak about contraception.
Shhhh!
You’re messing up the whole thing.
They’re also fooled by birth control pills being covered by insurance.
Excellent article. Thank you Plink.
Everywhere on the intertubez people continue to whine conspiratorially about the birth control question by Stephanopoulos’ to Romney. Couple of points, “Griswold v. Connecticut” is the basis of the privacy right upon which Roe was decided. Anyone who has spent a year in law school has studied the decision including Romney who has a law degree. Could it be the “gotcha” moment wasn’t so much laying the predicate for the idiocy of the wingers and OxyLush, but the duplicity of Romney on yet another issue? I’m not an Obama supporter, but I’m much less a supporter of pandering sycophants being given passes.
This is a good read on the issue of why contraceptives should be part of basic health plans: http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_20083126
Yes, this is very good. Its the same one Plink posted a couple of comments upthread, but worth posting twice!
To all fellow “Smarties” that want to laugh today: As you probably know, there’s a huge backlash against Lush Rumball all over the web for calling Sandra Fluke a slut, and people are campaigning against his sponsors. Apparently proflowers won’t drop him so consumers are going after them, there’s a facebook page, twitter & they’re going after their ratings on Amazon.com. Some of the reviews are hysterically funny:
http://www.amazon.com/Dozen-Rainbow-Roses-FREE-Chocolates/product-reviews/B004K68LCO/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_pop_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar
Socal, they’ve now suspended their ads.
Keeping a level playing field; ‘Ed’ Somebody has been taken off MSNBC for calling Laura Ingraham a ‘slut’..
Prior to the last few days, ‘slut’ was kind of old hat..But then, so are Rush and Ed.