The progs, led by Media Matters, are playing a dangerous game with Rush Limbaugh. I suspect cooler heads in the mainstream and liberal leaning media know the “Facebook” Left is juggling hand grenades . Whether they’ll speak up remains to be seen.
Limbaugh calling Sandra Fluke a slut and a prostitute was obnoxious and out of line. The blow back has been harsh and deserved. Other than the Facebook Left’s glaring blind spot around sexism, I have little issue with how this drama has played out. Limbaugh exercised his right to be a jackass. Others exercised their right to respond. Advertisers exercised their right to drop Limbaugh. Conservatives pointed out cases in which liberal darlings used revolting language against women, which is their right. Media Matters has every right to campaign against Limbaugh. It’s all been loud and ugly. Loud, ugly and entirely within the realm of open democracy.
Without a doubt Media Matters is now upping the ante. They are not interested in refuting Limbaugh. They want Limbaugh drummed off the air. It’s hard to imagine they’ll succeed, but they might. If Limbaugh’s ratings go south over his comments and the backlash to them then he’ll get cancelled. Oh well. That’s the way it works. However, it’s doubtful Media Matters’ campaign against Limbaugh is about ratings. Nor is their selective rage against certain examples of overt sexism a believable reason. There’s no Media Matters campaign urging subscribers to drop HBO over Maher’s vulgarities.
This is about silencing opinion they don’t like. (I don’t like Limbaugh either, this, of course, is beside the point entirely.) Media Matters’ tactics are not Fascism and we should refrain from misusing that word. But it is a stance that invites the thought control aspects of Fascism. Media Matters is too immature to realize that while they’re ginning up the mob against Limbaugh they are also changing the ground rules for themselves and those they believe are on their side.
Bill Maher knows this. It’s why he told the Facebook Liberals to turn down the volume. My hunch is that Louis CK knows it too. The mercurial David Brock is amongst the most destroyable persons in public life. Is he deluded enough to believe that he and Media Matters can’t be annihilated with the same rules of engagement his organization is using against Limbaugh? Or that the Right won’t happily knee cap him, adding a smug “You started it!”
The most alarming possibility is this: Brock and his fellow travelers don’t care if they go down with the free speech ship because, in the end, it’s not that they don’t like Limbaugh’s opinions, it’s that they don’t like free speech. They’d prefer that discourse remain contained and easily manipulated. Civility is desirable. But often pleading for civility is merely an excuse to control the conversation. Politicians whine about a lack of civility whenever they can’t refute a valid argument. Obama did it on this very issue, throwing in “concern for his daughters” as bonus manipulation. Note to Mr. Obama: Refusing a million dollars from a man who uses “cunt” as a punchline shows concern for your daughters and every other daughter.
Both the Far Right and the Obama Brain Damaged Left show signs of early onset fascism. At this moment in our history the Obama Brain Damaged Left is more open with its attempts at thought control. Cults usually are. In 2008 they exploded with rancid denunciations of anyone who questioned their Dear Leader. They’ve spent weeks frothing about “slut” while rationalizing away “cunt”, “twat” and jokes about children with Downs Syndrome. When contradictions are pointed out their synapses short-circuit. Most are no longer capable of seeing their contradictions. With these people Alinsky has completed his mission. Cognitive ability has been diminished. They are a mob. Most mobs are unsuccessful after one or two kills. Those that are successful become thought police.
Limbaugh may have finally done himself in. He’s a jackass and has been a jackass for decades. If his time is up and people stop listening, so be it. Good riddance. However, allowing Media Matters to go beyond expressions of disgust and boycotts and into attempts to silence someone they detest is dangerous. Media Matters may not care that it’s dangerous but the rest of us ought to. Ugly speech is protected too. So is responding with force to ugly speech. It’s called “more free speech”.
If one doesn’t like Limbaugh, Maher or any other blowhard the best response in a free society is to change the channel. I’ve not listened to Limbaugh much at all in my life (One or two shows was plenty) and I turned off Maher years ago. I recommend this. Your world will be a better place. However, our world will be a far worse place if we allow resentment addled, unconscious, immature mobs to dictate who gets heard.
Fair treatment to all and good analysis of the situation.
Totally agree.
Oh so true! Thank you. Now if only both extremes and their followers had one collective brain cell between them, they’d listen and learn, but I contend neither will. thank you for this breath of fresh air.
Good post, John. Let’s hope Brock is reading it.
John you are more prescient than you know:
http://www.dallasblog.com/201203221008887/dallas-blog/soros-army-stages-mali-mutiny.html,
In the midst of staging a coup, he has also partnered with Arne Duncan for a world wide ‘education project’, and gave media matters a million dollars, that we know of, last year.
He a busy guy.
Interestingly neither of the sites, BBC nor china daily have this particular piece of propaganda in them.
Both the United States and France governments are refusing to help the Mali government during the mutiny, since that might cause President Barack Obama to lose Soros, a key donor of the Democratic Party.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17462111
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/usa/world/2012-03/13/content_14821969.htm
2nd article from China daily:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/usa/world/2012-03/22/content_14884753.htm
Link to his Arne Duncan partnership:
http://educationviews.org/2012/03/21/obamas-education-dept-partners-with-soros/
At the bottom of that article:
via Obama’s Education Dept. partners with Soros
the link is to World Nut Daily:
http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/obamas-education-dept-partners-with-soros/
as the one commenter said:
Joseph Farah’s World Net Daily? Reposting from a website that carries that noted wack job Jerome Corsi. Did the full moon return early while I wasn’t paying attention? At this rate, I expect to see the Weekly World News next.
http://weeklyworldnews.com/
I don’t understand the concern. Media Matters isn’t that important in the grand scheme of things, and with the all pervasive internet, how is anyone going to stop the free flow of information and ideas? Bill Maher wanted to libs to dial it down on Limbarf becuz of his own record as a flaming hypocritical misogynist. Limbarf probably has 100 x the amount of money as all of the regulars here combined. He can afford to retire in style or fund his own program. He’s one of the last people in the public eye that will ever get any sympathy from me. Actually, the backlash against these jerks has given me more hope than I’ve had for this country in quite a while. I see the backlash as being in favor of decency, not facism. Sorry John, I think this is one of the very few times I’ve ever disagreed with you over the years.
“He’s one of the last people in the public eye that will ever get any sympathy from me.”
Totally agree, SoCal.
“Actually, the backlash against these jerks has given me more hope than I’ve had for this country in quite a while. I see the backlash as being in favor of decency, not facism”
With you on this too, SoCal. And it is inaccurate to suggest that Maher has somehow slid under the radar and escaped liberal scrutiny or liberal wrath when in fact he’s been the target of liberal women’s orgs for years for his sexist rhetoric and what he calls standup comedy critiques of female politicians. He’s faced numerous boycotts. This explains why Maher has defended Limbaugh on this issue, because they’re both sexist slobs. The biggest difference in the two is Limbaugh can’t get through a broadcast without bitch-slapping women, all women. Maher’s offenses less frequent and unlike Limbaugh, not his bread & butter. Also, the words “slut” and “prostitute” used to describe a single woman who advocates for contraception in healthcare coverage, conveys a message to all women. Limbaugh targeting Sandra Fluke, whose only offense was being a witness before Congress, and suggesting to a national audience on Free OTA radio that reaches millions, that Fluke’s use of contraceptives makes her a “slut” and a “prostitue” is an indictment of all single women who use contraception. It’s an old tactic called slut shaming and it’s a decades long calling card of Rush Limbaugh. But the real kicker that sets Limbaugh apart from others who profit off of blatant sexism is his suggestion that Sandra Fluke film her sexual encounters and post them on YouTube in exchange for coverage of contraception in healthcare. That was like nothing I’ve ever heard from Maher or any other self-proclaimed entertainer. He is a vile little man and if women want to unite to lead the charge against FINALLY ending his daily woman bashing and push him off the national stage for once and for all, I say. MORE POWER TO US.
I do think Obama should refuse to take monies or campaign support from Maher ot any dubious character, as should all other pols, but that will happen when hell freezes over because most of their monies come from dubious peoples.
” Sorry John, I think this is one of the very few times I’ve ever disagreed with you over the years”
Me too!
Women need to begin focusing our purchasing power, our political power and our social power against the men or women who make their living, in whole or in part, working against women, belittling women, demeaning women and slut shaming women. (Susan G. Komen crossed the Rubicon with it’s Planned Parenthood stand and look what has happened to them) We should begin with the highest profile guys like Limpbaugh & Maher, and then move on to the more subtle purveyors of demeaning attitudes toward women like the Pols who think they have the right to dictate what is and what isn’t important to women’s healthcare. Lastly we need to go after the religious organizations who push the notion that women are lesser beings in creation and need menz to decide what we should or should not do with our lives and with our bodies.
Taking women back to 1950 AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN
Did you guys see this? Satanorum says is Romney is the nom, repubs should vote for Obama? wth?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/rick-santorum-etch-a-sketch-mitt-romney_n_1373243.html?ncid=webmail1
I’m not planning to vote Santorum or Romney, but he basically echoed what I’ve said before that that Mitt vs Barack is a no-choice election.
The GOP should be nominating an anti-Obama. With Mitt they have an Obama-lite, minus the cult, and with Rick they have a theocon caricature. GOP is playing to lose.
That said I’d still vote anyone but Obama.
Interesting. Can you imagine the uproar if Hillary had told her supporters to vote for McCain? I guess this means Santorum and his wife won’t be running themselves ragged on the Romney campaign trail.
Limbaugh was last week’s Big Important Concern. This week the glittering American intellect has grasped onto Etch-a-Sketch.
JWS, great post. First one on the left I’ve seen that recognizes the McCarthyism of this tactic. How different is this tactic from hounding a sitting governor out of office with bogus lawsuits?
(You would think that they would learn from that – even when they achieved their goal there they just created a bigger problem for themselves.)
My car must be a girl, even though most of my driving is local, and within a few miles of Rush’s broadcast location, his station only comes in as static. I rarely turn on the radio at home, just in the car, otherwise the car is perfect, I take this as an omen..
The best way to affect the likes of Rush and Maher is to tune out, and e mail their advertisers.
I make a point of listenting to Rush from time-to-time because I firmly believe in the adage “Know your enemy”. Rush has been on the assault against women for decades. No one single person has done/said more to disparage Hillary Clinton than Rush Limbaugh. No single person has done more to disparage the women’s movement and women’s rights movement figures than Rush Limbaugh. Any man who refers to women in power or women who don’t agree with his political persuasion as Femi-Nazi’s is not a friend of women.
NOW, Emily’s List have had Rush at the top of their list for years, Bill Maher has also seen and felt the wrath of NOW, Emily’s List and other women’s groups. But the truth is Rush LImbaugh is and has been on the attack against progressive, liberal, liberated women, almost daily, in a way that no one else in the public eye has. With his demented attack against Sandra Fluke, a non-politician, non entertainer, non-public person, he crossed a line that went from politically motivated, sexually charged punditry, to just plain, hateful, hate-filled sexist rhetoric.
I read the right-wing blogosphere and I know they’re pushing this double-standard Bill Maher comparison for all it’s worth, but the truth is Rush Limbaugh is the king of sexist rhetoric and no other prominent entertainer/pundit/talk show host can hold a candel to Rush, not in intensity or in duration or in influence. I don’t care who or what forces combine to rid the public airwaves of Rush Limbaugh. I say more power to them and the best way to rid the world of the sexist rhetoric of Rush and the voices like Rush Limbaugh is to appeal to his sponsors and make an example of him. Cutting off the head of this monster will give pause to the rest of he-men woman haters.
Brava, Mouse, Brava!
Well, Rush is who he is, there are several sides to all arguments, and there must be room for all.
If one only follows the O controlled media, or listens only to Rush, they will believe anything, just on differing sides of the same issues.
Censorship is never the answer, unless it involves children and pornography.
“Censorship is never the answer, unless it involves children and pornography.”
We’re not talking about censorship, Sophie, no one is asking the Government to get involved or to make laws to stymie poor-pitiful-mistreated Mr. Limbaugh’s Free Speech, god knows he’s been spreading his bs for decades, unimpeded. We’re talking about uniting with one-another and withdrawing our financial support to sponsors of his BS and using the media he uses to express our revulsion over his sexism. As a consumer I can voice my opinion with my pocketbook. The religious right has been using the boycott-with-your-pocketbook strategy to boycott those business that support Gay rights for years. Now, if you think Rush should be ignored and left to spread his anti-woman bile ad nauseum, than you should join the campaign to save Rush and email his sponsors expressing your support, then go buy their products. It’s the American Way!!!!!
I couldn’t care less about who goes after Rush Limbaugh or how they do it; he’s a pig, he’s attacked without provocation plenty of times, he’s fair game.
But this boycott thing is so transparently not about women’s rights or women’s power. Limbaugh’s been saying misogynistic things for years but suddenly now, when conveniently it dovetails with Obama’s re-election strategy, suddenly now Limbaugh’s rants are unacceptable to the point of boycotting advertisers. Brand new crystal is harder to see through than this nonsense. The ones buying into this are the same ones I’ve said all along will help Obama win a second term.
The best irony of the story, though, is David Brock’s Media Matters leading this new brigade. Brock became famous with his line about Anita Hill, “She’s a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty.”
The Democrats must be brilliant to orchestrate this so flawlessly. Let’s see how this particular chapter unfolded.
Darryl Issa had a Senate hearing about Contraception coverage in Healthcare, trying to frame the issue as a religious rights issue (the GOP is in the tank on this issue and no hearing is going to save their ass on this one). Issa made a serious mistake when he refused to allow the Democrats to put forth their witnesses, Sandra Fluke being one, to testify. He also denied the Dems request to have a woman on the first panel. Instead Issa opted to put forth a first day panel of 5 men, including clergy, to get their opinion on contraceptive coverage in HealthCare because everyone knows that MEN are the experts, especially clergymen, on women’s contraceptive health issues. The female members of the committee left the hearing in protest. What a brilliant move by Issa. He must be working with OFA.
Next the Dems on the committee decided to hold their own hearing for the witness they had attempted to get onto the original panel. The day after the witness, Sandra Fluke, testified, Rush Limbaugh (because he’s working for OFA) went on a tirade against Ms.Fluke calling her a prostitute and slut, for supporting contraceptive coverage in HC. In fact his tirade against Ms.Fluke lasted 3 days and wrapped up with him asking that Ms.Fluke create a YouTube porno film of her sexual activity so that he could watch it to be sure he was getting his money’s worth. What a sick pig. He has also opted to go on a tirade against NOW, also a brilliantly strategic move!!!
Immediately after Limbaugh launched his initial assault on Ms.Fluke, Women’s groups including NOW and Emily’s list rebuked the attacks and the emails began to flow. It was picked up by the MSM, Bloggers, Facebook and twitter, not necessarily in that order, and the talk of boycotting sponsors began almost immediately.
FYI…..The tactic of boycotting Rush Limbaugh’s sponsors in an effort to get him off the air IS NOT A NEW TACTIC, as you infer. It has been tried against Limbaugh before unsuccessfully. Unfortunately for Limbaugh, social media has progressed to the point where getting the word out concerning Limbaugh’s assault on Fluke was much easier and much more timely than in the past.
BTW….I read the Daily Paul so the Phony boycott line you use isn’t unfamiliar.
Had Rush Limbaugh NOT viciously attacked Sandra Fluke, during a time when women’s minds were especially attentive and tuned into the debate concerning women’s reproductive healthcare (not to forget, most young women don’t remember the fight launched in the 60′s-70′s to make sure that reproduction was seen as a woman’s health issue, BECAUSE IT IS A WOMAN’S HEALTH ISSUE. IT’S NOT ABOUT ORGASAMS OR CONDOMS.) this might have slid under the radar. I have 4 granddaughers ages 24-28 and they’re appalled at this debate. They cannot believe that in 2012 some men don’t understand that a woman’s reproductive systems/issues are as important to women’s health as our other body systems.
Sadly, this issue was created by the GOP/TeaParty. It was created as an issue in the U.S. Congress and in State Houses around the country in an effort to end reproductive freedom and to shove religious dogma down our throats. OFA didn’t force the GOP/TP to push for these anti-woman measures across the nation, the GOP inflicted this wound on itself.
The fact that Obama benefits from this WAS TOTALLY PREDICTABLE, the GOP dumbasses took their mid-term Tea Party wins in the U.S. Congress and in State Houses and rode it to anti-choice, anti-woman legislation, Now they’ll ride it into defeat. I might cry!!!!!
Indeed, it’s the old ‘distraction’ tactic, isn’t it ? “Don’t look Here, Look There”. The O cartel has been doing this since before the election..What I find interesting is how he is still running against Bush, it’s as if they haven’t re-programmed his micro chip yet.
If Romney is the R canidate, what can O say ? “He makes too much money ? Everyone with ears and eyes knows that the O’s love opulence and luxury, i.e. money. “His best friends are bankers ?” Pot meet kettle.. So we are left with fringe issues, like treating 9 bucks worth of b.c. pills like they’re unattainable diamonds. And pretending to love women’s issues, when the female members of his own staff complain about being iced out ? Tamer left a very smart and complete list the other day of O’s schemes, Romney should read it, his campaign would write itself, with that for an outline.
Michelle and Barack are black, you know darn well that calling them out on spending is racist!
How racist and misogynist of you!
Ms Magazine already told us Barack Obama is what a feminist looks like; suggesting otherwise is just racist. Oh I’m sorry, wait a minute, I mean it’s RACIST! There we go, now you know it must be true.
The line between censorship and boycott is being blurred, and proglodytes are primarily to blame. For years, they’ve tried to prevent the likes of Limbaugh & FOX* from speaking their minds — by seeking to revoke their FCC licenses, etc.
They think it’s fine for NPR and MSNBC to editorialize — that’s the “Truth” to them. What the progs have in mind is banning, blocking, battering, or otherwise preventing from being expressed, views contrary to their own. That’s censorship, and yes, it’s fascist.
*(Could anything be more pathetically evocative of latte-liberal snobbery than using french to mock “Faux News”?)
“The line between censorship and boycott is being blurred, and proglodytes are primarily to blame.”
I don’t understand how you blur the difference between censorship and boycott. No one on Over-the-Air radio has more listeners than Rush Limbaugh, he isn’t censored, in fact he’s out there everyday with his obnoxious, sexist, racist tirades. But he may go the way of Don Imus after he was fired by CBS for his “nappy headed ho’s” comment. Imus has come back to a degree, but he isn’t where he once was.
And I think it’s fine for Limbaugh to editorialize politically and slant it in any direction he wishes, but there’s a huge difference between editorializing and singling out a private citizen and calling her a slut and a prostitute for advocating coverage of contraception in HC. I have never seen or heard Fox, or CNN, or MSNBC, or NPR dare to editorialize in the fashion that Limbaugh does, they’d be boycotted off the air within 24 hours. If Limbaugh had the protection of Pay-TV like HBO or take the Howard Stern route with Sirrius, no doubt he’d use the Bill Maher special “c#unt” and the “t#at” words to the point of distraction, but he can’t use those words OTA.
Feminist organizations and Women’s groups have been working for years to get Rush off the air. Many of those battles were fought in defense of Hillary. Nothing new here except younger women have, for the first time in their lives, heard the clarion call to assist in protecting what many of us won for them over 40 years ago.
And what action has the Democratic Party taken to remove or to have the FCC remove Fox News from the airwaves? I’m not familiar with that action. I am familiar with the GOP attempting to defund NPR and PBS however.
“I don’t understand how you blur the difference between censorship and boycott.”
“Feminist organizations and Women’s groups have been working for years to get Rush off the air. ”
You answered your own question.
“I have never seen or heard … NPR dare to editorialize in the fashion that Limbaugh does”
NPR was obama’s butt-slut during the 2008 primaries. NPR’s news stories are always heavily tainted by proglodyte editorializing. MSNBC is a de facto wing of OFA.
“And what action has the Democratic Party taken to remove or to have the FCC remove Fox News from the airwaves? I’m not familiar with that action”
When did I say it was the Dem Party? Just google “Limbaugh” + “FCC” + “revoke”.
“I am familiar with the GOP attempting to defund NPR and PBS however.”
NPR should be de-funded of the 15% of its budget the gov’t covers. Despite the “public” in its name, NPR is a private org with a biased political agenda. PBS is cool.
I’ve noticed race coming into heated comments sections more and more the past couple of weeks.
Here’s Obama’s campaign team’s brilliance in full force:
Playing to millions of folks, obviously to AAs and parents but also directly to the 30/40-something crowd, evident in the reporter’s characterization: “underscoring how the issue affected him on a personal, and not just a political or legal, level.”
Don’t bother to add that these comments were solicited from Obama at a press conference today, they weren’t offered up willy-nilly. Also don’t bother to add that after Obama commented both Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney weighed in expressing sentiments similar to those of Obama. Of course they didn’t say if they had a son he’d look like Trayvon because that would be a big DUH! But we all knew Obama and Trayvon are both black, so what’s the big deal? We have a problem in this country, especially in my section of the country with racial profiling. We call it “Driving while Black” in the South.
My gut reaction to that comment is “For gawd’s sake, Mr. Prez, not everything is about you.”
Yeah the press asking for his comment about Trayvon Martin would never have been anticipated by Obama and his campaign framers.
Careful, you sound more and more transparently like you’ve the mind of an Obot who just happened to want a woman more than Kool-Aid in 2008.
“Yeah the press asking for his comment about Trayvon Martin would never have been anticipated by Obama and his campaign framers”
Yeah and the press asking for a comment about Trayvon Martin would never have been anticipated by Santorum and Romney and their campaign framers.
“Careful, you sound more and more transparently like you’ve the mind of an Obot who just happened to want a woman more than Kool-Aid in 2008″
Careful, you sound more and more like a dipshit who supports Ron Paul.
It might’ve been, doesn’t matter; there’s no brilliance in either one of their campaign teams.
Obama framed it making it “personal,” a (not very) subliminal suggestion to reinforce the Obama-as-victim-of-racism meme, and even further suggests himself the father of a son killed by a racist (if one believes the common assumption that may or may not be true).
It’s manipulative and grotesquely so because it fans the flame of race resentment and hostility for the sole purpose of re-electing Obama, right on cue after the birth control element of the Obama2012 strategy is winding down; it was worded and delivered brilliantly and is one more piece of how Obama will be voted a second term.
Auntie Invective writes: “It’s manipulative and grotesquely so because it fans the flame of race resentment and hostility for the sole purpose of re-electing Obama,”
That’s total BS. I saw his response live and it was respectful and professional. There was not an iota of intent to incite in the tenor of his voice or his words. You don’t have to support Obama to be fair. But fairness isn’t in your tool kit.
The flames of race resentment and hostility were fanned with the MURDER of this innocent young man and the failure of law enforcement to do it’s job properly, PERIOD. This is clearly a case of racial profiling by a neighborhood watchman who was uttering racial epitaphs just moments before he killed this young man. This kid was killed for being a black man wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles. The cops didn’t investigate, instead taking the word of this guy that it was “self-defense”. How could that happen? You want to guess how and why that happened? I know many AA’s who’ve been victims of profiling. I hope this episode helps to open the eyes of the part of the population that doesn’t have to warn their children not to wear hoodies or not to run at night. Maybe this incident wil usher in a change of attitude, but probably not.
Zal writes: “right on cue after the birth control element of the Obama2012 strategy is winding down; it was worded and delivered brilliantly and is one more piece of how Obama will be voted a second term.”
Yeah, another crock delivered by the crock-master who is absolutely out of touch with what’s really happening because the BC controversy is not winding down, it, in fact, has only just begun. If Obama is relected it will be for no other reason than the GOP was turned on it’s right side by the Tea Party and raped by a bunch of whack job losers who can’t beat each other. The GOP set this shit in motion, may the reap the same shit they’ve sown.
As I said, it was brilliantly worded and delivered.
Obama made something that has absolutely nothing to do with him, about him, and framed it as I explained. It’s barely even disguised, it would lose its effectiveness if it were.
Your Obot thought process is showing.
The front page birth control “controversy” is done, it’s definitely wound down, it’s become fringe yelps of desperation for attention, the likes of a little bit nutty a little bit slutty David Brock going after easy target Rush Limbaugh, and people like you wheezing on the fire trying to keep it going.
“Your Obot thought process is showing.”
Actually my sense of fair play is showing and your sense of Ron Paulian idiocy is showing. Surely calling me an Obot wasn’t intended to hurt my feelings, because if it was you failed Ron Paul Supporter.
The only category Ron Paul leads in is, he leads the Congress in Neopotism. Gold, buy Gold, get rid of paper currency, end SS, end Medicare, end Medicaid, get rid of the the Civil rights act, Do away with the Dept of Education. Do away with the Fed, but pay my family members with campaign dollars and federal dollars, OH yeah, Ron Paul shall overcome someday, but not this year. What a fucktard. 
He makes Obama look genuine.
Hurting someone’s feelings is never my intent; you’re projecting one of your own motives.
My intent is uncovering, discovering and revealing the truth.
Like Zal, I too have detected an upswing in racially-tinged stories. We talked about this the other day on an earlier stream. It’s to rally the last remaining core of obots.
“Like Zal, I too have detected an upswing in racially-tinged stories. We talked about this the other day on an earlier stream. It’s to rally the last remaining core of obots”
Well apparently the Sanford, Florida Police Dept got the memo and blew this investigation on purpose just to capture the last of the obots. It’s just remarkable how everything is falling in place for team Obama. Limbaugh generates an backlash among women and Rick Santorum decides to campaign on women’s reproductive freedom, thus pushing women away from the GOP.. Darryl Issa has a hearing in Congress and calls 5 men to testify about Women’s reproductive health Issues, just in time to push more women away. Rush Limbaugh, once again, makes a total sexist ass of himself, and once again demonstrates his ignorance about female reproduction, just in time to reap the last gaggle of female obots and now we have the racially charged murder of Trayvon Martin, that should about sew it all up for Obama, All the Obot gathering of guilty whites and angry blacks is completed and none of it is the fault of the dipsticks who run the GOP or their surrogates or the nitwits in the Sanford, Florida PD. It’s a masterpiece. .
“I’ve noticed race coming into heated comments sections more and more the past couple of weeks.”
Exactly. Why not say, ‘my eldest girl is about her AGE; I’d hate for something tragic like this to happen to her.’
No, the first words out of barry’s mouth on this event deal with LOOKS, that is, skin color.
The kid shouldn’t have died, the guy that shot him was an aggro idiot. But everyone is focusing on the kid’s skin color.
Exactly, and that’s because race as an issue is always just below the surface building in pressure until someone with an agenda taps into it. It’s by no means only people with Confederate flags in their windows who are combustible about race; every American who grew up in and lives a regular adult life in our culture is infected with it in some way big or small, and most people pretending they aren’t is one of the things that keeps race baiting so potent.
I just shake my head when people say race baiting couldn’t be used in 2012 because people are past that or over that or onto it or whatever. Not only are people not past it, it’s hotter than ever since 2008. Obama’s victory over the Reverend Wright exposure increased his power to exploit race to his advantage, which he’d been honing for years.
No one’s was sicker of the false cries of racism directed at many Hillary supporters in 2012, but there’s a clear and present smell of racism in this election, even the candidates have lodged a few veiled racist meme’s
Have you seen any of these in your neighborhood? I’ve seen the one on Page 5 on a number of occasions. Nothing like the smell of the Rebel Flag in Dixie.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/gallery/image/raciststicker1png
Correction….”Hillary supporters in 2008″
Well, we’re still here, four years later.
Ha, Ha, fuckedy-Ha!
http://bushchimp.homestead.com/
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushchimplookalikes.htm
YA proglodyte double standard.
Oh, and while you’re at it, try publishing a graphic novel like this
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview2.php?image=previews/avatar/blacksummer/blacksum0wrap.jpg
about obama.
The stench of racism, homophobia, misogyny, classism, ageism, prejudices and bias and bigotry are all around us all the time. Welcome to America 2012.
No I haven’t seen any of those stickers in my neighborhood, I wouldn’t live in a neighborhood where that kind of thing is acceptable; there’s no way of knowing what goes on behind closed doors but at least in public my neighbors and I demonstrate more respect for one another than that. That’s clearly not what I was referring to, but you’re big into the distraction tactic.
I’ve noticed that virtually every picture that accompanies an article or comment about that re-nig sticker is the same picture of the same sticker on the same suv; considering the ubiquitousness of cell phone cameras and the eagerness of Obots to prove racism, this suggests this is not something that’s showing up as frequently as you claim.
I don’t believe you.
I don’t care whether you believe me or not, Hawkeye. I’ve seen #5 on a number of occasions.
And btw, I caught up on my blog reading and I don’t believe you tried to whistle blow on Goldman-Sachs. You never mentioned it to me when I questioned you about it on several occasions asking you why you didn’t whistle blow. You told run-dmc something quite different than you told me.
You catch up on your blog reading by reading posts I write when you’re not here? You have a curious obsession with me.
Anyway, I don’t know if I posted it to you but I’ve mentioned here several times my frustration and anger my last couple of years at Goldman, in particular how the disregard for ethics amped up as Glass Steagall was repealed, and that my efforts to do something about it were in vain, and that ultimately it was the reason I left.
“You catch up on your blog reading by reading posts I write when you’re not here? You have a curious obsession with me.”
Actually Zal, you have a curious obsession with yourself and think others do too. Not True. I read all the BLOG comments, had you not commented, I wouldn’t have read your comments, doofus!!
And Zal, you told me that you didn’t whistle blow because GS didn’t break the law. You told Run-DMC something quite different, something to the effect that you tried to whistle blow, but no one would publish you. (I’m not going back and re-read it, because one pass at your bullshit is one pass to many)
You’re lying again, or your memory is wrong again. You won’t find the passage you claim I wrote because it does not exist. I know I never told you or anyone that I didn’t write pieces about the ethics decline at Goldman, because I did and it was a period that took a toll on me.
Zal writes “I know I never told you or anyone that I didn’t write pieces about the ethics decline at Goldman, because I did and it was a period that took a toll on me.”
No, you never told me that “you didn’t write pieces about the ethics decline at Goldman”, but you NEVER TOLD ME THAT YOU DID! Why not? I asked you on a couple of occasioans why you didn’t whistle blow, that would have been the perfect opportunity to have told me. You’re such a fraud!
See, you just showed that you’re lying. You wrote, above:
And now you accuse me of never having said one way or the other.
You’re just a big fat liar.
“You’re just a big fat liar.”
Zal, why didn’t you tell me what you told Run-Dmc? You never told me you wrote letters to whistle blow and that they wouldn’t print them. Isn’t that what you told Run?
As I recollect you may have said that you told co-workers and effectively blew the whistle internally for things you thought were unethical, but you never told me that you wrote articles or letters that weren’t printed. You essentially told me that what GS did wasn’t illegal.
Zal writes: “Back to the point: I commented on where we choose to live, the neighbors and neighborhood we decide are simpatico enough with us that we choose to call where we live home. And where I’ve chosen to live, to make my home, the people who live in this neighborhood do not paste racist bumper stickers on their vehicles.”
Here’s what I wrote that began this conversation to begin with.
“Have you seen any of these in your neighborhood? I’ve seen the one on Page 5 on a number of occasions. Nothing like the smell of the Rebel Flag in Dixie.” and “I live in an area of the country where the Rebel Flag still rides prominently on rear windows, bumpers and even in self-styled personal lawn monuments to the Confederacy. We even have a very hideous one that sits on personal property, but faces a highly traveled section of Interstate highway”
You live in NYC and nothing “vile” happens in your neighborhood. No overt racism or sexism ever drives through your neighborhood, plastered on bumper, or a street sign or a billboard, or even through graffiti, nothing whatsoever? Yeah, You live in Paradise, don’t you Zal.
Well first of all no I did not tell run_dmc I “wrote letters to whistle blow.” (I don’t actually remember specifically what I told him but I know the truth.) I said I wrote op-ed pieces and articles that no mainstream paper or magazine would touch. And if I didn’t tell you I don’t recall why and I don’t care. Could have been any number of reasons. It makes no difference at all, except apparently to you, which doesn’t matter because you’ve a liar.
LOL! I’m under no obligation to tell you anything at all.
I write what I want to write when I’m writing, I don’t necessarily remember what I’ve written or why I put something in or left out something, and the only reason I know what I could have and wouldn’t have posted is because I tell the truth. If you tell the truth you don’t have to remember what you’ve said, you just tell the truth and what you say today matches what you said five months ago or five years ago.
What the people I worked with at Goldman did that I knew about when I was there wasn’t illegal. First hand information and documented evidence is all that counts if one is trying to whistle-blow (even then it can be in vain). In fact the unethical stuff I spoke out against, and wrote about, was carefully constructed to be fully within the law.
“LOL! I’m under no obligation to tell you anything at all.”
Finally, something I can agree with you on. But you know you’re under no obligation to comment period. And you didn’t have to tell Run “anything at all” either, but you did! She worked there too, correct? If you remember, you and I had some heated discussions about GS where I asked why you didn’t whistle blow (whistle blow, to my mind, is telling authorities OUTSIDE of the company, what you know concerning unethical or illegal practices. Whistle blowing to your co-workers or your superiors isn’t exactly what most people, including myself, consider whistle blowing) Which papers did you write to? Why didn’t you stay with it? Was there no Federal or local Agency you could take the info to? No State Attorney, no regulatory body? Apparently you knew or at least felt that it was possible that good, decent, hard working people were going to be screwed out of their monies and you threw up your hands and gave up? I also notice you chatise the whistle blower for moving up in the company, making money at the company and taking bonuses even though you believe he must have known that unethical practices were going on. So, did you take bonuses, a salary or other compensation after you realized that GS was involved in unethical, but legal, practices? Inquiring minds want to know.
And good luck with the truth thingy, you need it.
What’s “vile” is subjective, which is my point about the choices we make. I think a President using the senseless killing of a child to manipulate and stoke divisiveness to advantage his sociopathic ambition is vile. Most of what I see, that I don’t like, on the streets of New York these days is better characterized as annoying than vile.
I’ll happily answer those and other questions from many posters here. But not every question from everyone, least of all you.
“I’ll happily answer those and other questions from many posters here. But not every question from everyone, least of all you.”
LOL!!!! Thank you Zal for the answer. Yes, you took the bonuses, the salary and everything else, despite believing unethical practices were generating revenue.
How “Vile”.
Oh stop being stupid.
Of course I took the salary and bonuses I earned, and you take checks from the government even though you believe it’s corrupt with unethical practices including how it generates revenue by taxing the working/middle class to the point it’s burdensome while letting wealthy individuals and corporations pay far less than is a burden to them.
I was paid for my work, which generated a lot more revenue than I was paid, and everything I did that earned that income was ethical.
And when I realized I was fighting a losing battle and could not positively impact the direction Goldman was going (looking back I’m amazed at how naive I was), I left and tried to use my talents to impact positively somewhere else. I fight passionately and I fight truly but I don’t fight battles I can’t win.
Zal writes: “Of course I took the salary and bonuses I earned, and you take checks from the government even though you believe it’s corrupt with unethical practices”
That’s the STUPIDEST most disgusting and dishonest analogy you’ve ever made. Comparing receiving SS benefits generated from a trust that I and millions of Americans and their employers pay into for a lifetime, to your golden pool dip at GS, is absurd. You chastised a former GS employee turned Whistle Blower for taking his bonuses & salary while knowing of the corruption, but you did the exact same thing. You infer his whistle blowing was sour grapes because he couldn’t get the “golden” key, but in his whistle blowing he obviously succeeded where you failed. It may not change GS, but it cracked a window.
You’re right it’s absurd – compared to the amount I was paid, I contributed a lot more to Goldman Sachs’ coffers (and the clients I assisted) than you did to our Federal coffers compared with what you’re drawing out. I gave you too much credit.
I didn’t chastise Smith for taking his bonuses and salary while knowing of the corruption, I chastised him for taking the perks while not using his power as Executive Director and head of US derivatives in Europe, Africa and the Middle East to do something about the corruption. Many of the Goldman employees he complains about in that op-ed were his subordinates and had to answer to his directives. I didn’t work in derivatives as Smith did, and he gained big promotions during the worst of the corruption, and I didn’t hold anywhere near the powerful position –in the heart of the corruption no less– that Smith did, and even so I assure you everyone who was subordinate to me conformed to ethical behavior.
There is practically nothing comparable between Greg Smith and me, I worked there the decade before he arrived, during which time most of the most important regulations were still in play and the Chinese Wall fully intact, and I left in disgust just as he was starting at Goldman, a period he says he loved working there.
He succeeded at what he wanted, self aggrandizement. But he certainly didn’t do a damn thing to change anything at Goldman, including their value — their stock has been rising ever since his op-ed piece appeared and news of his book deal was reported. He’s the kind of man I left Goldman to get away from, he’s worst of the worst and just keeps getting away with it. No surprise you think he’s just peachy.
“No I haven’t seen any of those stickers in my neighborhood, I wouldn’t live in a neighborhood where that kind of thing is acceptable”
Well we can’t all live in eliteville and some of us can’t move because we don’t like how our neighbors behave. I live in an area of the country where the Rebel Flag still rides prominently on rear windows, bumpers and even in self-styled personal lawn monuments to the Confederacy. We even have a very hideous one that sits on personal property, but faces a highly traveled section of Interstate highway..
Life is just ugly in some places
http://www.nj.com/njvoices/index.ssf/2012/03/racist_bumper_sticker_attackin.html
Hey Mouse,
Maybe a little classic Charles Pierce will make it better …
Auntie Invective to be played by Zal.
Contrary to what you suggest here, which nicely aligns with your Obot racist meme, there are lots of places in America that are not elite where neighbors have enough respect for one another that they don’t adorn their vehicles with racist or homophobic or misogynist messages. And if you’ve chosen to live in a place where people drive around with racist bumper stickers, that reveals something about how you make choices.
“And if you’ve chosen to live in a place where people drive around with racist bumper stickers, that reveals something about how you make choices.”
More BS, from the BS-meister. I didn’t choose the place where I was born and raised. I didn’t choose to be born in an economic situation that didn’t afford me the latitude to leave. I was raised in a poor family where the young cared for the old and the infirm, leaving was never an option. I was raised in a segregated, racist south. that lived Jim Crowe to the letter. I’ve tried throughout my life to make things better here, as have most of the people I know, and things are better here, but red-necks and ignorance are alive and well all over this country, even in NY City and CT and you can’t change things by running away from them. Just because you don’t see them in your cloistered elitist world of fine dining and high living, doesn’t mean they aren’t there. If you live on the top floor of a skyscraper, everything at street level looks really neat and clean. Grow up!!!
In the United States of America, adults who aren’t abnormally weak or severely subjugated choose where we live. Especially in the past half century.
Even when I was penniless, I moved from a place where the people around me were toxic. You’ve lived a long life with a lot of days, you have legs that could carry you where you choose to go, you’ve chosen to live where you live.
Your victim routine is one continuous line of excuse crapola.
“Even when I was penniless, I moved from a place where the people around me were toxic. You’ve lived a long life with a lot of days, you have legs that could carry you where you choose to go, you’ve chosen to live where you live. Your victim routine is one continuous line of excuse crapola”
Mr. you don’t know jack-shit about poverty. And stating you were born to poverty and grew up in poverty is not a victim routine, is a fact of life for many of us. There are VILE people everywhere, you can’t escape “vile” people or “toxic” environments, They are in every city, in every state, in every country. You live in NYC, no vile or toxic problems there? None in CT? Damn, buy and island and move away from the “vile” and “toxic” world. Dipshit!
It doesn’t matter what you were born to or grew up in, in the US of our lifetime it’s been possible to move to another place, and another if need be; in fact the culture of this period in history has been in no small part defined by the availability of those choices to everyone including those who grow up poor.
I don’t have to buy an island, and neither does anybody else, to live in a neighborhood that isn’t populated by “VILE people.” And that includes where we have an apartment in New York City, which is not an elite neighborhood.
The race card has been thoroughly rejected by most voters. It will only help with the O’zombies, and the far Left. That said, there were fifty shootings on the South Side of Chicago last weekend, followed by twenty five deaths, when will O comment on that ? Or is it ok as long as the disenfranchised only shoot each other?
I don’t think so, sophie. The race card does not lose its potency for one very simple reason: race issues remain potent in most American’s minds and the less socially acceptable thoughts remain secreted. All Obama and his supporters have to do to tap the well is wait for the right time and frame it properly. If you haven’t already (I have), you’ll read or hear Democrats and Independents who’ve been critical of Obama now defend him because, they say, the racist attacks against him demand it. And in truth there’ve been no real racist attacks against him, only the usual fringe nuts having their say like with those stupid bumper stickers.
“The race card has been thoroughly rejected by most voters”
The problem in this instance is the race card is being played by Sanford PD. You need to read the story.
Awww. I’m glad Mouse is back, I missed her! I think Zal did too!
{{{Hugs to you SoCal}}} I missed you too Girl.
Of course I’ve seen vile things in lots of places.
You’re so deceitful, you try to distract and redirect when your nonsense is exposed.
Back to the point: I commented on where we choose to live, the neighbors and neighborhood we decide are simpatico enough with us that we choose to call where we live home. And where I’ve chosen to live, to make my home, the people who live in this neighborhood do not paste racist bumper stickers on their vehicles. Do I adore and approve of everything about all my neighbors? Of course not. But that’s what choice is about: we can’t have everything we want so we prioritize, we choose what works for us, what’s acceptable and what isn’t, or we accept circumstances by default, and either way that’s one way our choices reflect who we are.
Zal writes: “I don’t have to buy an island, and neither does anybody else, to live in a neighborhood that isn’t populated by “VILE people.”
You’re a total whack job Zal, I never wrote that I live in a neighborhood populated by “vile” people, but there are “vile” people who do “vile” things, in my community and I’m sure in my neighborhood as well. No matter where you live, that is a reality. Since this is a free country and I don’t live in a gated community with associaton rules and armed guards to keep out the folks you think are undesirable, I have no control over what people put in their yards, or what they put on their car bumpers or on their vanity plates. You’ve never seen a bumper stick in NYC that was vile? No “vile” graffiti? No “vile” behavior? Never seen a car with a Confederate flag bumper or window sticker in your extensive southern travels? Of course you have. You’ve seen a lot of “vile” things in NYC and CT and everywhere, I live here because I was raised in the south. Long ago I committed to caring for family here and I’ve lived up to that commitment. Accusing me of bad choices because I stayed in a community where people can exercise their racism or their homophobia with bumper stickers or with lawn art tribute to the Confederacy, is just another example of YOUR BIG OLD BUNCH OF HORSESHIT NONSENSE because there is nowhere I could move, other than a deserted island, where I could escape or avoid the bad behavior of others. You’re basically an immature, spoiled SNOB Zal. Grow up! In the meantime and while I’m waiting for the impossible to happen, I have better things to do than argue with a dipshit Paulian
Take a pill.
No pill thank you, but I will have beer. Why don’t you go ride a horse
The beer, then. Or a horse. But never both at the same time.
No beer and horse at the same time? Well you have no sense of adventure whatsoever.
I get high on life, man.
I don’t trust Shapton’s motives ever. He’s earned all our distrust. Of course he flew to FLA to preach pronto. (though it seems much of what he DID say pushed for people to avoid violence.) Still he’s a grandstander and usually very unhelpful. And always unnecessary. As for Obama, I actually give him the benefit of the doubt here. Yes, he too, injects himself at every turn. Though it does seem to me that the young man who was killed could “have been his son” – that seems like a fair statement and may be of some comfort to his parents. i don’t know what Obama’s real motive for the comment was, but the result is that the parent’s may feel a teeny bit less agony and his comment humanizes that boy a little bit more. What is about to happen is that ,sadly, the teenage boy is going to be forgotten is a shit storm of collective faux guilt mongering and forced rage. He’s about to be transformed from a real person into a poster, a flash card. Some dickweed on MSNBC has already blamed Jeb Bush…because people don’t kill people, constructed, imposed narratives do.
Let me add this: that boy could also be my nephew… he’s not a ringer, but he’s in the ball park. I’ve found seeing photos of him this week difficult. If nothing else I was forced to look again. There’s so much one must ignore or go mad in the lunatic information age. I’m fine with a reminder to actually look at that boy’s face. Even if it came from Obama in an odd way.
I don’t know if Presidents should ever comment in these cases. Justice is hard enough in situations like this one. The truth is run over by all sorts of crap. I can’t stand Obama, but he is human. I’m willing to assume that for a moment he spoke a simple human truth…
Perhaps i’m wrong and Obama IS trying to gin up race again. But why? 95% of the AA vote versus 98% isn’t going to make or break him. and it wasn’t white guilt per se that got him white votes before, it was “look at me, I voted for a black guy!” This horror won’t make those voters go “gee, I’ll forget everything that’s turned me off about Obama in the last 3 years because I feel guilty again.” White guilt is overstated and have been for a while. I feel more race guilt than any white liberal Obama voter I know. Obama didn’t assuage guilt for them…he proved them “right”. This is a totally different dynamic. In fact, I’d venture to guess that some of that Huff po type look back with nostalgia on white guilt. But it’s mostly gone. Attempts to recreate it don’t stick. Gamesmanship around race this time is way, way to dangerous. If it’s a campaign plan in 2012, then they are fools. Class resentment is a potential winner now. Race resentment is a big loser in 2012.
Obama’s comment today did not feel calculated. It do not strike me as similar to calling Sandra Fluke, which was an action that morphed her into a prop. He didn’t care and doesn’t care about Fluke. Calling her was simply an opening to score points by using her.
Anyway, this tragedy might actually be about race. With all the crying wolf of late it’s worth remembering that we still do have work to do. I don’t know what happened. If it was racially motived I hope we can actually deal with that and not split off into the screaming match. This hope, sadly, is pretty hopeless.
That thar is my 2 cents.
“Perhaps i’m wrong and Obama IS trying to gin up race again. But why?”
It’s all they got.
Good points John. This story has really depressed me.
See? You can’t stand him and I bet you don’t trust him, yet he was able to get you to trust him for a moment, to assume that for a moment he spoke a simple human truth.
As I said, the wording and delivery were brilliant.
Because it’s his trump card. Always has been. It’s how he vanquished the Clintons, for god’s sake! You know how strong and powerful the Clintons were, everybody knew Hillary would be elected President in 2008, and Obama’s dexterity with race baiting actually got millions of Democrats to believe Bill and Hillary Clinton are racists and Hillary therefore shouldn’t be allowed to be our nominee. That’s a powerful trump card and he sure as hell won’t shrink from using it in his final political campaign.
If Obama’s motive for the comment was to bring comfort to the Martins he could have said it privately to them.
I don’t care if it’s Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, what an incumbent President says publicly during his re-election campaign, especially one with a rotten record, is calculated to help him win re-election. That’s only smart and not inherently evil but it does shed light on motive and calculation. John, if someone like you gets fooled by someone you’ve distrusted as much as you have Obama, that says something about Obama’s ability to seduce.
Most of us soften at the sight of Trayvon Martin’s picture, he’s a nice looking, friendly and kindly looking, young man, and the thought of him being shot to death while walking near his home is a painful image to absorb. He also, I might add, has the additional “virtue” of looking the way a “safe negro” looks –he’s no Willie Horton– and that makes him a perfect tool for Obama’s use. I’m talking about psychological manipulation, nothing more.
Barack Obama has always been more than a savvy seducer, he’s always been a lucky man: opportunities fall into his lap that perfectly suit his talents and he exploits them. But it’s always for his own aggrandizement. He could have used the same talent and luck to get great legislation through for health care reform and banking reform and energy reform, and some kind of jobs initiatives, but he didn’t bother and that speaks volumes about him and his motives.
Aw Mouse, I thought you would be relaxed and serene from your time in the Conch Republic.
.Our biggest regret is that we didn’t buy the lovely and quirky Old Town house we rented, and just stayed there forever. Talk about a place where nobody cares what their neighbors do.. Various family members, including ourselves, are going down to Marathon to go fishing, after the snowbirds leave.
“Perhaps i’m wrong and Obama IS trying to gin up race again. But why?”
It’s all they got.
Hmm. Maybe TL. My thought is that even they must know it won’t work. Looking around the intertubes tonight and it is clear that the usual suspects are out pushing the collective guilt meme. It won’t work. And will eventually, quietly, backfire. every moderate white who broke for Obama will be annoyed and turned off if this story becomes about collective, national guilt. Obama’s secret weapon in 2012 is not race or guilt. It’s Mitt Romney.
But right now, mid-March, they need boots on the ground to build the field team for the general. The mass hysteria of 2008, propelled mostly by young fools, will never be recaptured. All OFA can rely on is the hard-core kool-aid junkies. That means middle-aged & + latte-liberals. The hammer of white guilt on their psychic knee is all that works anymore. (Gods, how I’ve seen it in action!)
And yes, beating the general public over the head with racism will backfire. But they have to play it now, then “pivot” to do an “etch-a-sketch.”
Axelrod is evil, but he’s also wicked smart. It’s desperate, yes, but it plays for time.
If it backfires it won’t backfire on Obama.
Jeebus, if Reverend Wright didn’t backfire on Obama I don’t really see how you think his personally aligning himself with this beautiful young innocent sympathetic boy could.
We’ve months to go, it’s possible Obama will misstep an opportunity to exploit race between now and November, anything’s possible I guess, but betting against Obama and race baiting would be a very poor bet to take.
I can’t speak for others, but every time O seems to appear human, as in the Fl. case, I become suspicious. Considering how many people he has thrown under the bus, I don’t think he’s capable of unselfish emotion.
Again, there were 50 shootings in Chicago last weekend, all on the infamous South Side, 25 people are dead, including a six year old girl..Yet I see no crocodile tears from O over that madness.
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Different article, different no.’s for Chitown, but some news on the Fl, case.. I take it all back, racism is alive and well, but not necessarily among the usual suspects’
http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin#ixzz1pysA978H
Doubtless someone will interject that the Charleston Examiner is a rabid Right wing rag, I have no idea, just followed a link. But I would suggest that the rabid Left wing press stopped reporting news 4 years ago, so where does that leave us ?
You need to listen to the 911 tapes and read or listen to some decent journalism on this incident. If you do you might just change your mind on how this MURDER happened.
It’s not murder unless a judge or jury determine it’s murder.
We do not know the state of mind of the killer, we’ve not heard a single word of examination or cross examination of him.
Not that reason or justice or thoughtful analysis of objective evidence are meaningful to you.
“Not that reason or justice or thoughtful analysis of objective evidence are meaningful to you.”
Oh, well we all know you are the expert on thoughtful analysis and objective evidence. That explains precisely why you obsessively tell us what other people are thinking using your power of clairvoyance.
He pursued Trayvon. He was told by law enforcement not to pursue Tryavon. He had a weapon. He left his car, with his weapon in hand to pursue Trayvon on foot. Trayvon is dead from a gunshot, he wasn’t killed by skittles.
Who needs innocent until proven guilty, or trial by jury, when we have Mouse’s drumhead?
I did listen to them, I also read that Trayvon’s father said that it was not his son’s voice that was screaming. You must know that if Trayvon had shot Zimmerman, a Hispanic, this story would not even be a blip on the radar screen..
I am so tired of the Injustice Industry. Pray tell, where is ‘decent journalism’ to be found ? The phrase alone is a contradiction in terms. Both left and right wing sources suck, it’s just a matter of who sucks less often.
If there is oddness in this case, it is that it doesn’t play to stereotypes, ultimately, we will have to hope the courts can resolve it, but with all the attendant publicity, it is hard to see justice being served here, for either man.
Mouse, you are so smart, I keep hoping you will reserve judgement and Think, and not shoot from the hip, but at our respective ages, we are who we are. So, ready, aim, fire.
That’s odd Sophie, I keep hoping you’ll “think”. In the words of Trayvon’s mother. “this isn’t a black and white thing, this is a wrong and right thing”. I will add my opinion from my own personal and family experiences, that this sort of thing happens disproptionately to young black men and minority men and men of color, Why?
From the NYT:
“I listened to the tapes and it just broke my heart again to hear him screaming out for help and pleading for his life, and he was still murdered,” said Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother. “There is no question in my mind that is his voice.”
911 tapes reveal that Mr.Zimmernan was the pursurer, even though he was told not pursue by the 911 dispatcher. Trayvon’s girlfiends statement clearly demonstrates that it was Mr. Zimmerman pursuing Trayvon.
The girlfriend:
“He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man,” said the girlfriend, who’s identity has been kept anonymous. “I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.”
Although he did run, and thought he had escaped, he later told his girlfriend that the strange man came back and was cornering him.
“Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.”
Only one person had a gun, Zimmerman and he was clearly pursuing. Even if his defense is self-defense. he confronted Trayvon who didn’t have a weapon, unless you consider skittles a weapon. Mr. Zimmerman should be arrested and charged as anyone else would who killed another person. He should be held in custody during the investigation. None of that happened, Why?
I can imagine how his parents must feel knowing that their son was stalked by a neighborhood watchman for no good reason and killed for being outside at night with skittles. Why did this happen? Because he was young? Because he was wearing a hoodie? Because he looked out of place in the gated community?”.
There is an enhanced 911 tape that seems to disclose that Zimmerman expresses concern that the young man was going to get away and calls the young man a “fucking coon”. The FBI will clarify this portion of the tape, if it reveals a racial edge to this Mr.Zimmerman’s self-defense excuse might be a bit shaky.
Trayvon will never get “justice” since he can’t get his life back, but the bastard that shot him should be arrested and tried. That gun law in FL is an abomination, I thought so at the time it was passed.
“He should be held in custody during the investigation. None of that happened, Why?”
FL law allows the police on the scene to decide whether to detain someone involved in a Stand Your Ground incident. Argue against that law, if you like, but don’t imply that Zimmerman was released because the boy was black.
“There is an enhanced 911 tape that seems to disclose that Zimmerman … calls the young man a “fucking coon”.
Even were that true (and who uses that word anymore?), you’re implying that Zimmerman hunted down & shot the boy because he was black. Even if he did “profile” the boy by his color, does that mean Zimmerman was motivated by hatred of blacks?
In all your ‘fair & balanced’ reading, you seem to have missed the part where the neighborhood had suffered three recent burglaries, and Zimmerman’s comment, “they always get away”, refers to that.
“In all your ‘fair & balanced’ reading, you seem to have missed the part where the neighborhood had suffered three recent burglaries, and Zimmerman’s comment, “they always get away”, refers to that”
LOL!!!! Three recent burglaries gives someone the right to kill an unarmed 17 year old man? In all of your “fair & balanced” reading, you seem to have missed the part where Zimmerman has called 911, 46 times since 2011. and that “Zimmerman “had been the subject of complaints by neighbors in his gated community for aggressive tactics” or that Trayvon Martin 140lbs and armed with skittles, was about half the size of Zimmerman, 250lbs who was armed with a 9mm handgun.
Are we getting ready to get into another Jerome Corsi/Birther argument?
“Even if he did “profile” the boy by his color, does that mean Zimmerman was motivated by hatred of blacks?”
If the enhanced tape confirms that Zimmerman said “fucking coon” right after saying “they always get away”, I’d say he was motivated by hatred of blacks. When’s the last time you heard a non-racist use the term “fucking coon”?
Yeah, I don’t understand that comment either, Tamer. If someone is “profiling people” based on race, it seems that the main motivation would be some level of hate or prejudice. I know there are professionals trained to profile for terrorists and such, but this guy doesn’t fall into that catagory.
“Even were that true (and who uses that word anymore?), you’re implying that Zimmerman hunted down & shot the boy because he was black.”
I didn’t imply that he was seeking out blacks, but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t make a pot-load of assumptions, driven by stereotypes, on that evening. Zimmerman told 911 that Trayvon was Possibly high on drugs and up to no good. How did he come to that conclusion by observing him from a distance? He told 911 that Trayvon was wearing a gray hoodie, was in his late teens and was black, all of that makes sense because he was giving a description, but if the “coon” statement is confirmed, he has big problems.
I think we are all vulnerable to the social stereotypes under certain circumstances.
Yes, he also kept changing his story. He said he thought he was black, was wearing dark clothes, then said he was wearing the gray sweatshirt, couldn’t say for sure what pants he was wearing but said he had his hand in his waistband? The poor kid ran away from him and he got out of his car and pursued him, even though the 911 operator told him not to. If he couldn’t see his face, how could he tell if he was on drugs? (Not that he could even if he saw his face clearly).
Admittedly I am still trying to put the pieces together regarding the shooting of Trayon Martin by George Zimmerman. Im hoping someone can help me out here:
1. George Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy who had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, saw someone he deemed suspicious in his neighborhood and got out of his car to follow him on foot.
2. He called 911 and said there was a suspicious guy, gave the info (I listened to the call) and then during the call Trayvon Martin tried to get away from him (because a guy was following him) and at that point George Zimmerman gave chase and might have said a racial expletive under his breath.
3. At a certain point, rather than continue to run, Trayvon Martin turned around and confronted George Zimmerman (this seems to be gleaned from Trayvon Martin’s girlfriends recorded phone call where she first urged him to run away) and there was an altercation.
4. I can only imagine there was a physical confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman, because police reports (someone please elaborate on this) said that Zimmerman was bloodied and had grass stains on his shirt when the police took his statement… and some time during that fight, Zimmerman took out his gun and shot Martin.
First of all, it’s horrible that this happened. We can all agree on that.
Second, if NOTHING else comes out of this, the Stand Your Ground law must be either thrown out or amended. It should only apply to private property (i.e. inside your home) and not quasi-private or public property. In my opinion, there should be very little wiggle room when deadly force becomes an issue.. call it Trayvon’s Law or whatever, but Stand Your Ground has to either be repealed or amended.
Third, the media spin of this… when I first heard about this case through the grapevine, it was that a white guy shot a 17 year old kid carrying Skittles and called it self defense. Zimmerman is hispanic, and I find it odd that that was not reported initially. I’m cynical but I think it probably has to do with the “if it bleeds it leads” mentality of the mass media. I can’t help but feel cynical about how this is being portrayed, how many 17 year old kids are shot and killed in America every day? How much senseless minority on minority violence happens every day that doesn’t make the news and why doesn’t it? It’s senseless… its tragic.
Last, Obama… OF COURSE Obama had to interject himself into this narrative… I really don’t think it’s some machiavellian thing, I think Obama is just a malignant narcissist who can’t help making this about “him”. Sure Trayvon could have been his son, the point is Trayvon WAS someone’s son and he could’ve been anyone’s son… we go back to this thought here alot, we are a nation of laws, not men… as a nation of laws, this case can/will be investigated and Zimmerman absolutely should answer for what he did to the letter of the law.
Obama’s self-injection into this narrative really just hurts it overall in my opinion… I fully agree that racism is still an issue in this country, particularly in certain parts of the country… and I think as the President you address those issues with the full weight of the law, not your emotions, not your perceptions, not your own personal history… in my judgement those things are irrelevant to the law… and Obama’s saying “he could have been my son” just makes it worse, in the same way he made the whole Gates thing worse by thinking he could make it a “teachable moment”.
IF (and I’m only saying if to consider due process) Zimmerman shot this Martin because of a racial bias or prejudice, then he should answer for it in a court of law…and hopefully that day will come.
Once that happens, something really does have to be done about Stand Your Ground.
Two women have given a different story than the witness named John. Also, scroll down and check the comment by someone called Proudlib:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anderson-cooper-interviews-witnesses-to-trayvon-martin-shooting/
I’ve read in several articles that Zimmerman was always calling 911, and had provoked other violent situations. Also, I couldn’t find any pix of his “injuries”.
I was surprised to find a level-headed assessment of *what is known at this point* on a pro-gun blog:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/brad-kozak/conceal-carry-versus-the-mob-mentality/
The media is jumping to conclusions, as is the public they’re agitating by luridly reporting unsubstantiated details of the event.
If it turns out that Zimmerman was actively pursuing the boy (he was told by 911 not to pursue), his actions would not be covered by the Stand Your Ground law, and he’d face manslaughter charges.
Thanks for that link SoCal. It hard to imagine self-defense with the shooter straddling an unarmed victim.
Mouse, good to see you back again — and in fine form!
Listen, I must respectfully disagree with you on the Trayvon matter. Earlier you said it was “murder”. It’s NOT murder until a judge or jury adjudicates it to be so; until then all we can say is that the victim was killed by Zimmerman. As to whether it was a legally excusable killing (eg, self-defense) is something that can only be decided by a factfinder who applies the EVIDENCE presented at trial to law set forth in the jury instructions. I find all this ‘trial’ by public opinion and news reports disturbing, to say the least. It makes a travesty of due process and justice. As an American, Zimmerman — even if guilty (and he may be) — is entitled to due process and the presumption of innocence. Period; end of story.
Also, Mouse, in this sub-thread, you note (in response to socal) that it’s difficult to imagine how Zimmerman may claim self-defense if he was astride the victim. It’s not for us — outside the presentation of evidence in court — to imagine anything about the crime or the applicability of defenses. Also, you’ll find conflicting reports on who was astride whom: plenty of accounts say that a neighbor eyewitness saw the victim sitting astride Zimmerman, pummelling him. But, that’s the point isn’t it: no one knows the facts yet.
Sorry to carry on here, but this incident and the political shenanigans surrounding it — starting at the White House itself and carried to the streets by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson — is deeply troubling and disgusting.
NES says “It makes a travesty of due process and justice.” Yes, the media frenzy is out of control, and in many instances in very bad taste…however, there didn’t appear to be any due process or justice in the works. Hence the public uproar. Maybe the cops there were secretly investigating or something, I don’t know. But since there are neighbors claiming the cops didn’t want to talk to them, and they apparently let the guy go on his word, doesn’t seem like anything active going on. I don’t think the cops could have handled it worse. Could not agree with you more about the SYG law. Horrible. I thought so years ago when I first read about it.
The cops responded quickly, took Zimmerman’s gun from him, reported what they observed, brought him to the police station and interrogated him. That’s what they’re supposed to do. There’s no indication they mishandled evidence or, so far as I’ve seen, anything else.
What facts support your thinking that the cops couldn’t have handled it worse?
Here’s a comment I liked from Tamer’s truthaboutguns link:
“Matt, puh-lease. Calling for an arrest is NOT a rush to judgment. In most places in the United States, someone will be arrested immediately after shooting someone, whether lawfully or not. I’m not saying he should be in jail for life or he deserves to be beat up by the cops.
The facts so far suggest that he picked a fight with an UNARMED 17 year old kid with a bag of candy, and then shot him with a pistol. This is the kind of guy we do NOT want in the gun community – the neighborhood watch mall ninja, with a criminal record, who PURSUES teenagers. Jesus Christ, people. Exactly why are we not arresting him? The pursuit alone indicates something is wrong with Zimmerman, and he should be taken into custody.
If the shooter were a poor black guy with a criminal record, and the victim were a pretty, educated white woman, I have a hard time believing that most people who say “wait for the investigation” would maintain that position.
As I type this, I have 15 rounds of 9mm at the four o’clock position on my hip, so don’t think that I’m some anti-gun lunatic. I’m just really saddened that people would defend this – it makes the gun community, which already has more than its fair share of assholes, look even more assh…”
“Yeah, I don’t understand that comment either”
Just by saying “coon”, Zimmermann faces federal hate crime charges and life in prison without parole. Just for saying that one word.
Because we’ve decided that anyone who says that word, even in the heat of the moment, is guilty of hatred, and we’ve made (some forms of) hatred a crime.
Everyone has a 1st Amendment right to say “coon”, but this has a chilling & stifling effect on free speech.
Well, I think he should face charges for killing an unarmed teenager who was walking home and trying to get away from him.
I think he should be investigated for the shooting, then indicted if the investigation merits and indictment, then tried in a court of law, for a charge that will most likely be manslaughter.
Sounds like you also want him to get a federal life sentence for hating black people.
It’s utterly outrageous to criminalize speech.
‘ When’s the last time you heard a non-racist use the term “fucking coon”?’
No true scotsman was ever heard to utter the term “fucking coon.”
looking around – seeing how this is unfolding. It’s revolting. Those who make “hoodies” seem to be having a fine time of it. Everyone else is in full scale “facebook” idiot mob mode. I know I participate too -I admit ownership loudly, right now. But does it bother anyone else how easy all of us are distracted and controlled? So far 2012 has been one massive “high school walk out” after another. We are a nation that remained in high school. and that’s being kind. 40% of the population got stuck in middle school. I do not believe there is a serious person in any position of power anywhere in this nation, with the possible exception of Mrs. Clinton, but it’s fair to doubt even her at this point. My hunch is she’s ready to walk off the stage right now to go read books on a farm in Vermont. And who could blame her?
The Miami Heat BB team donned “hoodies” to show solidarity. With who? I suppose everyone who finds due process annoying and not at all Facebook friendly. So glad all the kids in the nation now KNOW that the justice system ain’t nothing to be bothered with. Zimmerman is a dead man walking and Trayvon has become a promotional tool for hoodies – and he’ll be forgotten as soon as the facebook mob gets bored…until they are all gamed into the next episode of “hate hour” (Ah, Orwell, how right you were.) No one is behaving responsibly. NO ONE. With a days reflection it’s now clear to me that Obama commented to amp the story even further because he thinks it serves him.
And i’ll defend what happens here as NOT part of the problem as the comments may get furious but the commenters, at least, combine anger with intelligence. I’ve read comments on large sites regarding this story…my oh my. It’s stupidity screaming at stupidity.
This whole incident is horrific. Obviously it’s a tragedy for the Martin family as well as the Zimmerman family and a 17 year old kid is dead and a 28 year old man’s life is going to be changed irreccovably. It’s tragic.
The media sensationalizing this and the rush to judgement about the incident itself is pathetic. It goes back to the whole mentality of “if it bleeds it leads” that I was talking about before. Everyone has an opinion, information is coming in from all sides that’s conflicting and new information keeps coming up through the media. I just heard that Zimmerman may or may not have had a broken nose and was bloodied up, which would indicate that there was a fight that culminated in the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
I completely agree with JWS about the whole mob mentality of this.. and again, I think Obama had to interject himself into the situation AGAIN and just made it worse than what it already was. There is a saying in politics “never let a good tragedy go to waste” and it’s pathetic to see this taking place and racial rhetoric rearing it’s ugly head over this young kid. Call me cynical, but I can only imagine the inevitable phone call by Obama, or the visit to the White House by the Martin family, etc. in the same way that Obama interjected in the Gates arrest, in the Fluke debacle, etc.
And we’re basically just an audience to all this and it’s not only blatantly Orwellian but it’s shameful.
I think the outrage is about the l a c k of due process over this senseless killing. Look at the cops actions, fcs, they take the young man’s body to the morgue as a John Doe, and the poor parents don’t find out about it til the next day even though they have had people out looking for him and they’ve filed an official missing persons report! Why the hell didn’t use his cell phone to id him? They tested the murdered kid for drugs, but not the man who did the killing, they just took his word for what happened, even though they had his bizarre 911 call on record. They supposedly haven’t even revoked his gun permit. One of the witnesses said she called the cops repeatedly, but they weren’t interested. Until the media went after this story and blew holes in the shooters story, the cops seemed content to call it self defense. The parents have a right to due process also, but they sure weren’t getting any, til this story became major news. Check out these stories, the miami herald says they never even contacted the girlfriend even though they have the cellphone. The father tracked it down through the cell phone records. The parents want the guy arrested and charged. Who could blame them?
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706876_p2/sanford-commission-votes-no-confidence.html#storylink=cpy
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained
(btw, this reminds me a little of the case where the Sheriffs-to-the-Stars in Calabasas released that young black woman in the middle of the night without any money and didn’t let her call someone to get her and she was murdered and her body wasn’t found for a year. That was the same station that fucked my family over, and covered for Mel Gibson, so I know what they are capable of.)
Thanks for the motherjones link Annie, it is a really thorough timeline of events and definitely helpful in understanding what’s going on.
From the Miami Herald article I linked:
“I have never seen such an incompetent investigation,” said Walt Zalisko, a former Jersey City police commander who now owns a police management consulting company in Central Florida. “There are so many problems with this case… Zalisko, who has followed the case closely, said he was startled by Zimmerman’s claim that he had left his truck so he could check the name of the street he was on. Making a point that Chief Lee also made, Zalisko said it’s implausible that Zimmerman would not know where he was in a tiny gated community that he patrolled regularly.
“That’s a lie right there,” Zalisko said. “There are so many inconsistencies in the story. At the very least they should have arrested him, and let the state attorney sort it out.”
and there’s more like that. If these cops had done their job in the first place, there wouldn’t be the mob mentality. So let the justice system sort it out. How is that a rush to judgement? If there wasn’t a strong public outcry over this, the family of the victim wouldn’t have gotten any due process.
Yeah that makes total sense.. I get that, I didn’t understand the greater context of sequence of events and aftermath, and yes I agree that the Zimmerman family has a right to an investigation as to exactly what happened. I can’t imagine what I’d feel like if my kid was killed and I didn’t know where he was or what happened. How long did it take to identify Trayvon Martin and let his family know what happened?
I do stand by my statements about the media handling of this though. It’s pretty pathetic in light of what happened.
That is utter crap, socalannie.
“Walt Zalisko, a former Jersey City police commander who now owns a police management consulting company in Central Florida” is either lying or has a stunning lack of experience for someone with those jobs. I’ve never worked in law enforcement, I just read and listen to people’s personal stories and I’ve known about plenty of more incompetent investigations.
Zimmerman wasn’t brought in and immediately questioned on the record, that was incompetence to be sure but it was incompetence that happens all the time in America. And it happens without comment from the President or outrage from most Americans nevermind a mob.
Nonsense. Mob mentality is epidemic in the United States, it shifts from one outrage or celebration to the next while a perverted Media and other assorted attention whores toss out narratives, not caring a whit about the toll this is taking, each concerned only with what they’ll gain if their story is the next one the mob responds to.
The Trayvon Martins of America are not protected by this, the Martin parents of America do not find peace from their grief by this, and justice isn’t served by this. Mob mentality strings up people and hangs them without proper due process, it is not justice it’s insanity. No matter what the players look like, mob mentality always leads to the same old atrocities, not to justice.
Well, Zal, of course you know better than an actual former police commander and a professional police mgmt consultant. Thank you for filling us in.
Regarding Trayvon’s parents, they will undoubtedly grieve forever, but will take some small solace in having the truth known about their sons murder, instead of the local cops letting it look like he got what he deserved and the poor killer was only defending himself. There was an element of this to our own missing child case, the cops behaved v e r y badly, and afterwards, did everything they could to fudge the truth, (including leaving out witness reports in their official report that contradicted what they wanted, ruining the evidence at the scene, so as to make them not look derelict, so on & so on) so that we didn’t have a lawsuit against them. It was a different type of case, and was complex, but we have personal experience with cops altering an incident.
“Mob mentality is epidemic in the United States…”
Yes, certainly, but that doesn’t follow that had the Sanford cops done their job in this case, that there would have been the same type of public explosion we see now. People are pissed, becuz this clown chased this kid down, shot him, and claimed self defense and they initially let him get away with it. There’s a lot of obfuscation on both sides, but it doesn’t alter the basic facts, & that this case should have been handled very differently.
You don’t know the basic facts beyond Martin is dead and Zimmerman shot him.
That’s all you know as fact.
The rest is what you –and the mob– have decided are facts but has not yet been determined as fact, investigated and examined.
What’s happening is not people being pissed because a man chased down a kid, shot him and claimed self defense and got away with it — if that were true they’d be pissed about that happening whenever it happens in America. It’s nothing more than mob insanity, which always is rooted in some kind of real event but then takes on a life of its own fueled by anger or fear or frustration about other things.
Well, we know a little more than that now, don’t we? We know that Zimmerman singled the kid out as being suspicious and phoned 911. We know Zimmerman chased him, from his o w n words. We know Zimmerman shot him from his o w n words. The girlfriend said Martin was trying to get away from him. Now, you can claim her story as not proven if you want, but then why the hell would you believe Zimmerman’s as gospel truth, when he’s the one who shot the kid and INSTIGATED the entire incident in the first place?
Where did I say I believe anything Zimmerman said?
All you’re doing is showing more evidence of herd thinking. Keep going.
If herd thinking comes from listening to the actual tapes, reading the different aspects of the case, and using my own common sense and 50 years worth of life experience which includes some pretty dramatic Greek style happenings over my lifetime, then so be it. I have no problem with the fact that a lot of intelligent people are asking the same questions. btw, even if, a big if, that kid had turned around and attacked the clown with the gun, I still think Z would bear responsibility for the killing, becuz he instigated the whole ugly situation, he was armed, the kid was not. Seriously Zal, have you listened to the tapes? Go the Mother Jones link, it has them all. Hopefully, the feds will do the right thing and nail down the facts. If whathisface is indicted, he can get a lawyer and have his day in court.
I’ve listened to the tapes and read reports of what the witnesses said, and I take no issue with asking questions or engaging in discussions about the incident.
What I take issue with is reaching conclusions about guilt or innocence and motive and state of mind, calling it murder, calling for punishment when there’s still so little known and before a single word of testimony is heard in a court of law, claiming to know as fact what is not fact, people like the President and countless others using the event as an opportunity to fill their coffers with money or power or votes or simply attention, and how quickly so many people join a mob of spottily-informed herd thinking. That’s not how justice is served and it’s destructive, and in the US it’s been happening repeatedly for years now. Not only in outrage about killings of innocent people, like Trayvon Martin appears to be, but also celebrations over Osama bin Laden’s killing without due process, and also about situations perceived as positive like subprime mortgages that seemed like a great way for people with lesser means to own a home but was misunderstood and abused by both lenders and borrowers until it created a lot of destruction – that, too, was exacerbated by herd thinking. This go-along wannabe herd way of thinking, deciding what’s right and wrong with misinformation or made-up faked-up pretending that people insist are facts, all made credible because a majority goes along with it, has been causing all kinds of problems, unintended consequences, and Americans just keep doing it and defending it and blaming others for the consequences.
Paying focused attention, collecting information, searching for truth rather than excuses and scapegoats, analyzing evidence and coming to informed conclusions brings about very different consequences from herd thinking and mob behavior.
This case shares some features with the Terry Schiavo hoopla, several years ago. A rush to judgement mob mentality is taking hold. Nero would feel right at home, what shall it be ?, thumbs up or thumbs down ? Either way, nobody wins.
Too many Americans view life as a soap opera, again, it’s the ‘feeling’ group and not the thinking sector that seems to be running the show.
I’m linking this not as any type of counterpoint or defense of Zimmerman, just showing how subtly the media can manipulate our collective perceptions on this:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2012/03/why-was-trayvon-martin-photo-altered.html
omg. Yes, the media has gone overboard, I don’t deny that.
My beef isn’t with the competence of the investigation as – which kinda proves my point – we, the people, are just finding out about the investigation. a racist incompetent police department would hardly surprise me. LAPD has a long and ugly history on this score. I’d just like to find out what happened before being told by the media and Al Sharpton how to react. Sharpton in particular ought to be shunned by all thoughtful people. He’s proven himself to be unworthy of any trust.
Leave it to Sharpton to grandstand for his own glory. Still, my heart aches for the parents. I have a tall skinny 17 yo who likes to walk to 7-11 occasionally for ice cream and my life would be over if this happened to us. And so senseless. Did you see the article about the shooters 911 calls this year? What a psycho.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/trayvon-shooters-911-calls-potholes-piles-trash-black-men
The calls were over a period of years actually. Still…
The document listing the calls is 47 pages long! Incomprehensible.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html
One thing I worry about with this is the fact that this guy called 911 SOOOO many times. I hope the police dispatch weren’t thinking “Oh that’s just Zimmerman crying wolf again” and then took their time in responding rather than get a car there ASAP and potentially stopping the fight/shooting.
John, these last two comments of yours are absolutely positively spot on.
a few more thoughts on this today. Things move so swiftly in the FB/twiiter world we live in. One must discuss both the real story and the “twitter story”. The ‘twitter story’ is moving along as it usually does. Eruption/blowback…with blowback about to take centerstage.. Zimmerman’s version is about to get the tweet treatment for 36 hours or so.
One side will write an entire narrative that denies slabs of reality and insults millions. The concoction “white hispanic” fuels this nonsense. “white” works better for this narrative but the man’s face snuffs that out. so, though I know some hispanics go with “white” on forms and such, I’ve never seen the media enmass take on the usage “white hispanic” before. The narrative demands that Zimmerman be “white.” His face doesn’t comport. He doesn’t look like a hillbilly so we have a new category. If he’s called “hispanic” then this is Brown V Black and the audience the media wants engaged and emotional drops off right away…this is harsh, but true. brown/black violence is pandemic – the media doesn’t care…for a reason. there’s no profit in reporting it.
Also, it’s funny, I’ve never seen the AP refer to Obama as a “white black”
The side other will dutifully ignore any opportunity to discuss real racial dynamics in this nation. And this case should lead us to an obvious discussion.Black male teens ARE viewed as more suspicious by non blacks. (and some blacks too, I’d guess,) It would show real progress if that was discussed fairly and with all the discomfort we can handle. Many whites would have to confront lingering demons they deny they have and many blacks would have to dethrone “leaders” like Sharpton.
After a few days this will all go away and nothing will change. Something new will pop up to get the froth going again after a short intermission.
Meanwhile, the real story, which we simply don’t know all that much about yet,will be lost.
All of this is a way to AVOID a “conversation about race” while acting as if we’re engaged with issues surrounding race.
FYI, the Census Bureau doesn’t recognize Hispanic as a race. So you can have “hispanics” who are “White”, and some who are “Black.”
The DOJ tracks white-on-hispanic hate crime, but oddly doesn’t count hispanic-on-black that crime — those are classified as white-on-black. I guess they just couldn’t conceive of two minorities hating each other. Which means they definitely didn’t attend my high school.
John, good post. I, too, abhor the trend toward suppression of un-PC speech. My sense, though, is that Media Matters won’t succeed — this kind of campaign tends to engender a backlash.
On a side note, wasn’t Brock the guy behind Troopergate? Ironic.
Very interesting discussion on the Trayvon death.
Although it wasn’t my initial reaction, admittedly, I think Obama’s statement about Trayvon was out of bounds. He left one in no doubt that he believes Zimmerman acted out of racism when he said we should be engaged in “soul-searching.” Since his Justice Dept. is investigating Zimmerman for a hate crime, this rush to judgment was especially appalling. Equally appalling and incendiary was his follow up statement about his hypothetical son looking like Trayvon since it racialized the incident, adding fuel to an already raging fire. He’s the President, speaking from the Rose Garden…he may not speak his mind like a private citizen. And, of course, all of this doesn’t even touch on his greatest transgression: his articulated rush to judgment compromised the presumption of innocence and due process that Zimmerman is entitled to. How can the investigation and trial be fair if the President himself has condemned Zimmerman?
Why would Obama do this? I agree with Zal and Tamer: he’s playing the race card in the service of his reelection. That’s shameful.
I didn’t notice the innuendo in “soul-searching” (as in some character flaw or ‘guilt’ in our hearts) until you pointed it out here.
DOJ only has jurisdiction in this case if it’s treated as a hate crime. So they are, in fact. And all based on the utterance of one word (which any smart defense attorney would insist was “goon”.)
read please:
http://crayfisher.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/a-different-look-at-the-trayvon-martin-case/
Excellent and level-headed analysis. Letting letting the facts lead to a conclusion, not the other way around.
Agree.. again, there is so much conflicting info coming out about this and it’s totally become agitprop for the media.