Tonight’s topics: “You didn’t build that!”, Are Romney Democrats emerging?, and How ugly will the campaign get? Join Lynne, Tamerlane, myself and this week’s guest, Anna Bell of Peacocks and Lilies. 6pm Pacific. Click HERE. The call in number is (877) 653-8381.
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On the radio!
Thank you, John. It was a real pleasure.
Just re-listened. I think next time I’ll use speakerphone and hold it out a bit. I was very LOUD. Apologies for that. LOL.
you sounded fine on my end. Also, your instinct about MR announcing he will not take his salary as President is powerful. If he has not already decided to do that, he owes you one. It’s potentially one of those convention speech moments that is truly electrifying.
Tried to listen tonight, but the broadcast went all “Maxx Headroomy” on me. Don’t know if it was on my end or yours. I’ll try to pick up the archive later. What I did hear was great!
excellent show!
On reflection, I believe the “you didn’t build that” remark may go down in history as when obama jumped the shark.
Hmmm. Good call. He jumped the shark for me so long ago it’s a touch call. But for much of the country that remark will be the point of no return. It’s his “malaise” moment. In a few words he crystalized the suspicions of millions.
The only thing can can save him from it is our national A.D.D. or a huge gaffe from Romney.
I personally think Pat Sajak nailed it on Obama’s moment:
http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Defining-Moments
I think all Obama was trying to do was mimic Warren’s comment from a few months ago, and he totally botched it. Jay Leno just used the you didn’t do it reference in his opening monologue.
“You didn’t build that” is his tank with a helmet moment.
Or it’s his “attack rabbit” moment.
You didn’t make that show
This won’t be the moment that breaks Obama that you all have decided it will be.
It was another bad gaffe on his part but he’s had them before and he gets past them.
In order for this to be the turn around moment, Romney would have to be able to capitalize on it. And Romney can’t do that. Romney is to the manor born and raised; I know those guys because I grew up around them, and they’re not street fighters the way Obama is. Obama was in California and Boston and New York before Chicago; he settled in Chicago because he was comfortable with the Chicago mob crowd. Romney started in Michigan and rooted himself in Massachusetts, where the likes of Dukakis and Kerry and Elizabeth Warren are comfortable. Romney cannot make hay out of this Obama gaffe; he doesn’t have what it takes.
The smart thing I heard John say in the radio show (I only listened to ten minutes or so, skipping around), which you’ve shoved to the side but ought to pay attention to is that he (and many of us) actually agree with what Warren said and Obama was trying to say. That’s pivotal, that’s what’s at the heart of what took Dukakis down and Kerry down — what we really believe and how it jives with what the candidate did or said versus what the opponent tries to make of it. Willie Horton was serving a life sentence for murder without possibility of parole and was let out as part of a stupid program that Dukakis supported and then Horton didn’t return to prison like he was supposed to (duh); Horton then twice raped a woman and pistol whipped her boyfriend. When asked at a debate if his wife were raped and murdered would he want the murderer to face the death penalty, Dukakis said no with no emotion. Even Democrats watching this unfold, from Willie Horton to Kitty’s hypothetical rape and murder getting a virtual shrug from her husband, thought there’s something wrong with this man. Bush was able to make something out of it because Dukakis laid the foundation. The same was true of the Kerry swiftboating — he’d served in Viet Nam but then essentially became a turncoat after he returned and then embellished stories about his tour of duty; he was running for POTUS just a couple of years after 9/11 and Americans were pro-military; Bush hadn’t even gone to Viet Nam but he used photo ops to convey a GI Joe soldier image and those two reasons are why the swiftboating worked: even Democrats winced because Kerry had gone to a war we protested and then tried to be one of the protesters and also a war hero. What Dukakis and Kerry provided was context Bush & Co could exploit.
This is different. The conventional belief about Barack Obama is he’s a black man who came from a working class white mother and very smart black father who had to work hard, even fight, his way to education and opportunity, and the grandson of a grandmother who raised him while working hard to support the family; Obama worked hard and succeeded through the best schools (I don’t believe that but it’s what people think) then ultimately became our first black President by virtue of intelligence and hard work (again, I don’t believe that but it’s the conventional belief). Mitt Romney is a stiff white man born to privilege who took a job at a successful Wall Street type firm and made a huge amount of money with which he’s lived a luxurious life. Those are the characters involved. All Obama will have to do is bring out his folksy accent, his casual shrug and false earnest expression and “admit” he was “inartful” about saying that we all, all us taxpayers, help businesses thrive, we’re all in this together, we’re a team, we do this together. That’s what resonates with people today and makes them feel okay, that’s the social construct of most settings including this blog: people want to be part of the crowd, they want the group to let them in, they want to see themselves and those around them as a team, as a group that works together to make something successful. The odd man out –and that’s Romney, not Obama– is not the one given the benefit of the doubt, not the one who prevails in identifying; the passes are given to those who are able to align themselves as part of the group. Even if they’re the liar, the fake, the manipulator, the one who got it wrong. And that’s what Obama has always been able to do.
I’ve said from the start and I stand by it today, this election will turn on the psychology of Americans and how effectively each candidate can manipulate it. And I maintain that Obama has the advantage there.
I’m anonymous, just above.
Zaladonis
You spent more time kvetching in this comment than listening to the show.
There’s no kvetching in that post, it’s the presentation of an argument that supports my theory or point of view. That’s old school, and in liberal discussions people often responded by taking issue with a point or two or presenting a reasoned argument that supports a differing view. I realize the convention these days, left and right, is simply to assert what one feels as if it’s fact, unsupported, and assume if it’s said in the acceptable tone it’ll be accepted as truth with exclamations of “brilliant!” or “that’s historic unprecedented genius!” I am aware of this. And I remain unabashedly old school.
And BTW, not that it matters particularly, but in case it was unclear the reason I mentioned that I’d only listened to ten minutes of the show, skipping around, was because when I wrote, “the smart thing I heard John say,” I didn’t want the implication to be I listened to the whole show and heard John say one one smart thing.
In 2008 the One made comments like this and those were ignored. His sneering condescension was considered by some as a new wisdom (for masochists maybe). 2012 is completely different. Romney isn’t McCain and the entire country is sick of Obama and his non-performance. He was the marketing candidate in 2008 and he has done zippity that he promised. He doesn’t DO policy, he does speeches and waits for the payola with his hand out. Traditional news media (networks and newspapers) went full sycophant at the very time alternate news sources were picking up consumers killing the audience share which Obama depends on to dominate in a election. Nothing is going right for him in 2012. The stupidity of 2008 has passed.
It’s true Romney isn’t McCain, but for those who are principled Democrats/Independents/Liberals/Moderates/Progressives, not controlled by personality politics, McCain was a much easier Republican to vote for than Romney. The easiest example of what I mean by that is McCain fought for campaign finance reform while Romney was making a fortune off screwing workers so investors could increase their wealth.
And if you really believe “the entire country is sick of Obama,” what you think is the entire country is an echo chamber you’ve cozied yourself into. In point of fact a lot of the population, while disappointed in Obama’s performance, is much angrier about their diminished prospects and blame Wall Street and Corporate greed, which many see personified in Romney much more than Obama. Rather than the entire country thinking what you claim they think, the country seems to be split about in half about who’s sick of whom.
You need to get out more, Zal. Deign to talk to a peasant every once in a while.
I talk with a lot of people with little money and what I often hear is, again, disappointment in Obama and an assumption that Romney would be even worse. Obama’s race and his manner and the life narrative he’s convinced people of, versus Romney’s, is, I believe, a big part of this perception, as is the more and more deeply ingrained polarity of Democrat versus Republican.
Now, that’s not to say I never hear people, rich and poor, attack Obama and say they’re going to vote for Romney. I do. There’s clearly a lot of dissatisfaction with Obama’s performance. But more often than 2008 Obama voters switching to Romney, among those really angry with Obama, I hear “peasants” say they’re not voting for either party. I listen to a lot of people in a lot of places who agree with me and who don’t, and that’s my experience FWIW.
No Zaladonis, most of the country now wishes McCain had won. We’re gonna fix that.
You’re as bad as Obamabots; you think truthiness is truth, you think what you feel is the same as a fact, that wanting something to be true is the same as it being true.
How, by trolling around and smiting truth tellers like me? LOL! I’m not your problem, nobody would be happier than I to see Obama go down and go down bad; you can’t even identify the problem and that’s why you’re not “gonna” fix it.
Zal, in your world does anyone have a thought but you? Do only your experience, region, people you speak to count for anything? I suspect not. Self-righteousness turns people off. Try a little respect. You are a wonderful writer but your disdain and closed mind are off putting. Just a suggestion.
You suspect wrong, which is why I often see more clearly than most. In my world everybody has thoughts and what everybody says counts for something, not only those who agree with me or please my sensibilities. I loathe echo chambers, pretense and false flattery; I listen for truth.
Yes I know. I know what draws people to adoration and how honesty and competence and the self-righteousness of frustrated truth tellers turns off people. I am aware.
I am respectful to people who are respectful to me, I try to be anyway, and I remember those who are not because even if they put on a nice facade the truth is what matters to me. (Not that I get it right 100% of the time; I’ve been fooled by really good pretenders but it’s rare.)
Thank you for your compliment about my writing; this may be hard to believe but that, and truth and my mind and principles, are what I care about. If people are put off by my style and allow that to interfere with interacting with me, that’s their loss not mine. There are some who appreciate me for my strengths, and if my weaknesses make them wince they accept it as part of a package that’s worth the trouble. I don’t need everybody to like me, I don’t want to lead a crowd; if only a few get what I’m about and appreciate my value, that’s good. People who are concerned about whether or not what they’re saying is off putting cannot possibly be telling the truth all the time.
Glennmcgahee, you’re totally on the money.
“Truth tellers like me”
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ROFL!
One of the first rules in Opinion World is ‘never universalize your own experience’. Having been guilty of this in the past, it is a hard habit to break.
I have a lovely neighbor in Fl. who is a Conservative Jew, daughter of a Holocaust survivor, and strong supporter of Israel. Her husband is a retired doctor and they have had significant losses in their retirement funds. Still, she recently told me she is going to hold her nose and vote for O. The legendary feather could have knocked me over at that moment.. How could she not ‘see’ what I now realize was my truth ? I think she has a lot of company in her feelings. How dare this smart, pleasant woman have such thoughts ? I suspect there are many more like her out there.
Exactly, sophie. There are many like her. And anybody who’s interested in politics and doesn’t know this is listening to only what he wants to hear.
Further, Millennials and Gen Ys who went batshit for Obama in ’08 have not switched to Romney, and won’t. That’s a lot of people.
I am in a book group where some of the people have been badly impacted by the collapse of 2008. They don’t like what’s happening in the country. They didn’t like the attacks against Hillary or Sarah, and they’re going to vote for Zero – again. Nothing to be done there, can’t talk to them as they won’t listen.
It will at least be an interesting election since I’m not invested in it the way I was in 2008.
Senneth, are you implying that attacks against Hillary and Sarah are republican based?
Your comment has that “concern troll” tone to it. “Well, I don’t like how Hillary and Sarah have been treated, but I’m going to hold my nose and vote for O even though I don’t want to”. That is classic concern troll tone from the Obama camp.
I don’t know anything about you, just going by what you wrote.
Dailypuma.
LOL. No, I’m implying nothing of the kind. I was a PUMA too, BTW. Still am. Spoke to a crowd in Henderson, NV for Sarah in 2008, was on stage with Sarah and Lady Lynn.. Remember 2008 and th R&B Committee and the horrid convention like yesterday.
What I was saying and evidently said it badly, was that members of my book group were very upset by the attacks on both women. However, I’m pretty sure some of them will vote for Zero, despite their disappointments. I could be wrong.
Bwaaahaaahaaa concern troll again. So easy to instantly label someone, isn’t it. I was actually responding to Zal, who’s also been called a concern troll and is nothing of the kind.
LOL, Dailypuma, I’ve always liked reading your comments at Hillary is44, but perhaps you should not label people so quickly.
As I’ve said on this blog many times, I’m voting for Jill Stein. I’m pretty sure Tamerlane brought up her name and I read up on her and she has my vote.
if you read the tone of my prior post, I did not out and out label you, I am just pointing out what your comment sounds like. If you had checked in to DailyPUMA over the past couple of weeks, I was advocating Roseanne Arnold for the Green Party nomination as a way to siphon votes from Obama BEFORE the democrat convention as a possible way to have Obama step aside.
Not a high likelihood of that happening, but, Jill Stein? it’s a shame she didn’t do the right thing and back Roseanne and get her into the proper frame of mind.
Dailypuma, did you see the “debate” with Roseanne and Jill Stein? I put debate in quotes because they agreed about everything and couldn’t have been more supportive of each other and their ideas. It was what I want and what we need in politics – smart and rebellious and cooperative. Not surprising it was two women (and a woman moderator).
But what seemed clear to me is Roseanne is angry at the right things and has the right ideas (IMO) but it’s Jill Stein who’s thought the problems and solutions through to specific policy ideas, and that last part is essential in a candidate. It’s one of the things I love about Hillary.
Anyway, because of Tamerlane and Senneth’s mentioning her consistently for the past several months, I finally gave Dr. Stein a good looking into. And it was this debate with Roseanne (available on YouTube – but you’ve probably already seen it), which is very long and gave me time to mull over the big picture, that convinced me. I have to vote for Jill Stein because she is what I want in our elected officials, and if we don’t vote for what we want then we are part of the reason we’re not getting it.
If you follow the money, it looks like Romney will be the one selected to be our next president.
kinda sense the same thing, anonymous.
To which I say — Great! That gives us four years to nurture a good lib candidate into viability!
Anony..Perhaps, but then how do we understand Cali ? It’s cities are going bankrupt, more people are leaving than entering, yet common wisdom is that it will go for Obama in a big way. As for NYC, unemployment is now at 10% in one of the most prosperous cities on the planet, yet the state will go to O.
A generation has now come of age that grew up on “S%%T happens, and then you die” They have no memory of Carter, or even George B The First.. Most may not see any correlation between politics and the state of the country, or they blame the R’s for not cooperating in passing O’s dreams and schemes,and Wall St for everything else..Watching the horror of 9/11 was not real to them, it’s as if it was just another disaster movie or video game,. ie: they are unreachable, and unteachable. It’s all about our frame of reference in the end.
Love this bit of the thread. I remain agnostic about how this is going to play out. Too many unknowns. Today being an example. But I don’t buy the demographic arguments. Hispanic voters are not a sure bet for Dems over time. Nor are they a monolith. W got a large chunk in the recent past. Overall the streak of social conservatism is deep. The most interesting up and coming hispanics are on the GOP side right now. The GOP will get a larger and larger chunk of the hispanic vote as time goes on. Watch. The right wing nativists not withstanding. Culturally recent Mexican immigrants have much in common with the ethos of the American west. As they mainstream they will become more conservative in voting patterns despite the lingering of the Jan Brewers and Sheriff Joes. .
And CA’s current political dynamic is an exception, not a rule. CA did the opposite of what the nation did in 2010. Went BLUER…The proper analogy for CA is not the rest of the nation. It’s France. This nation-state, because of arrogance, denial, pride, momentum, economic power, cultural propaganda…even pleasant weather…does not fully accept the situation it is in. The CA I’m talking about was created by Pat Brown and TV…Gidget and a thousand other shows. On a barely conscious level Jerry Brown, Pat’s boy, was brought back to do EXACTLY what he’s doing…say “it’ll be fine. Hard, but not that hard. We are still the exception.” Hence the bullet train. I’ll bet now it will be wildly over budget and still get built. It comports perfectly with the California ethos. Something will emerge to make it happen. Something always does. Gold, Stolen water creating massive farms and massive cities, Hollywood, the Cold War, Silicon Valley.. whatever….something… Just because this narrative has never gotten the Texas myth treatment doesn’t mean it isn’t just as powerful. There is a refusal to cop to the fiscal crisis because it means giving up on a long story about this place being different…and better. I’m not defending this. Merely stating what I perceive. Arnold was an expression of this more than it’s nemesis, the star that would figure it out without causing any pain. …and he became Sarkozy.
Of course, reality, which always wins in the end, is being played out on the city level regardless. San Bernadino has been a shit hole for 40 years. I’m shocked it has not gone broke before this. If Compton goes belly up too it would not surprise me at all. It IS nicer than it used to be but it still sucks. If they are flush, they vote Dem. If they are broke, they vote Dem. It’s habit as much as anything. I do not think how people vote in CA indicates much of anything for the general election. The number that really matters is % of white voters supporting Obama or Romney in places like PA and Ohio. I don’t see that dynamic changing for a generation at least. yes, hispanic voters will matter more and more. But they won’t be like black voters. The history is too different. Many latinos will go GOP. I hate to generalize but will anyway – the culture as a whole is instinctively conservative.
As for personal anecdotes – well – Obama regret is as prevalent as hold your nose for Obama. We shall see if Romney can capitalize. I have my doubts. I have nothing but doubts about this election… which does make it interesting.
One last thing as I blabber on tonight. The dynamic to watch is the combo of white and hispanic voters. NM Gov. Martinez and Rubio figured this out even within their party. More and more GOPS will figure it out. I’m telling you a generation or two in – the Hispanic/Dem marriage makes less and less sense. It’s habit. And bad GOP P.R.
Excellent discussion, John. Perhaps I missed it, but there is also a huge influx of asians in both NorCal, SoCal, and in the valley, including many from near, far and middle east- Sikhs, Hindus, Hmong, it goes on and on. Many may not vote at all. I don’t see anyone courting their vote on either side, not even local politicians, so I imagine they do not come out enmasse in general, but I don’t know. They tend to be very religious and family oriented. From my observation, as they assimilate, they are all over the place politically.
The poor rural areas of Cali are largely republican, despite or possibly inclusive of the hispanic population.
Yes, Ohio and PA are crucial in the race. Horrible dying towns in Ohio- Youngstown, Warren, Cleveland, yet overall a resurgence of some jobs entering the area. Ohio took a huge hit with the demise of the auto and steel industries. Lots of traditional families, but some are unusually liberal, just anecdotally. It is hard to say. And, there was a growing rise of hispanics in both states, remarkably- I don’t know how current that is, however.
It is interesting to discuss demographics, but I worry about making generalizations as well.
“Perhaps, but then how do we understand Cali ? It’s cities are going bankrupt, more people are leaving than entering, yet common wisdom is that it will go for Obama in a big way.”
I suppose we understand it in the same way that we understand red states going for George W. in a big way. It’s a matter of sticking with your “team” I guess. It’s as good a reason as any when we’re given such bad choices. But it’s the swing states that matter and I think they will be “encouraged” (manipulated) to swing Romney’s way (for better or worse).
I wish I lived in a swing state so I could feel like my vote mattered.
Me too.
Sophie and Anon (and Zal, JWS, TL indirectly): as a native Californian, the cities going bankrupt lack often much of a commercial tax base. Mammoth Lakes is a tonier but tiny resort town, Stockton a declining inland port, San Bernardino a long-time rundown exurb with 40% on “public assistance.” These places (Compton may be next) are unlikely to reject Obama. The meme to blame Bush resounds; unions parrot this. Swing states may veer away, but 50 million Hispanics are starting to wield clout, those who vote, with the allied efforts of unions; the “white working class” shrinks: only a fifth of today’s suburbs are “majority-white”–the GOP loses the newer, younger voters. I reckon this may be the last national election where the national tallies leave the GOP much chance. What happened in California in most districts: the GOP may be outnumbered by independents, who are often likely to turn Democratic in a pinch. (Although TL noted this works if a GOP majority is in place to the opposite, but such state strongholds are diminishing with redistricting.) I predict this disparity will slowly increase nationally.
A little analysis on the CBS/NYT poll I mentioned on the show:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/19/Polls-Show-Bain-Attacks-Hurt-Obama
It was BO’s overall Favoribles that fell to 36%.
Ok, Officer Grammar, Favorables … You are welcome to swat down my next blooper, fair is fair.
1) That’s spelling, not grammar;
2) It’s a made-up word, anyway;
3) LOL.
Fio, ’tis a somber picture you paint, but one with a possible future dynamic that could be very positive in the end.Cali’s open door policy will eventually create a situation in some towns where there is nowhere to go but up. It will not happen overnight, but it will happen. There is so much money out there, and some of the smartest people on the planet, i don’t see them all packing up and moving to New Jersey. That would be far too un-cool.
It’s not 2008, but false “hope and change” is still with us . Only now it’s the Mittens bong
people are smoking. Whoever gets in, or how, the results will be the same. That’s how it’s been set up.
Barry is so stupefyingly lame, they may well trade him out. Overlords get bored too…But the policies or the direction we are going will not change. That’s the point of this “choice”