Another of my periodic gut checks:
Gallup’s latest tracking poll has Romney up by 1. Rasmussen has Romney up by 3. After a 100 million dollar attack ad dump by Obama, the numbers must make Mitten’s crew pretty happy. But the scariest number for Obama is this one from USA Today:
A month of Bain attacks and Bain helps Romney. So with poll numbers like those above – Why is the election close? A few theories.
1. It may not be in reality. Barring extraordinary circumstances (A civil war for example) citizens vote based on their feelings about the economy. The numbers on the economy are good indicators on how people will swing later in the race. Obama is even with Romney now because Obama is a habit. If this dynamic does not change, the impending election will focus voters – and they’ll break for Romney.
2. Romney, with backdoor help from Obama, is seen as a solid business man. He’s not seen as a President. I suspect that’s the point of the overseas trip. Like Reagan in the summer and fall of 1980, people are not adjusted to the idea of President Romney just yet. This is keeping things close. I further suspect that the perception of a close race works for both sides for the time being. Obama can’t afford any further distress in his ranks, and Romney can’t become Thomas Dewey.
Surely Obama wanted to knock out Romney this month. He threw the kitchen sink hoping for an epic Romney mistake. The only gaffe close to an epic mistake was made by Obama. You didn’t build that has legs, and will be revisited from every angle in the Fall. The Obama rebuttal is panicked, weak and borderline pathetic. Taken in context, out of context, and with no context at all: Obama insulted people. That’s the way his remarks read and feel. Period. More than that he confirmed a thousand suspicions about him in four short words. The only way to blot the moment out is to catch Romney confirming our suspicions about him – that he might just be a wolf in nice, Mormon garb. Romney could make such a mistake.
Romney has survived and probably benefited from Obama’s barrage. (I duly admit I was wrong about this – thinking Romney would be hurt by the Bain assault in the short-term.) Without him doing much (and inadvertent help from Obama) a Romney vision for the country is emerging. The economic number above tells us that too. Romney will make the right decisions on the economy. Which is individuals saying: My life will be better if Romney wins. The question gives them the chance to voice this sentiment without turning their backs on a President they had high hopes for. Yet.
Obama’s vision for a 2nd term? Beats me.
And now the caveat. It’s not still early anymore. We are well into this game. There is, however, still plenty of time. Obama’s stunning lack of campaign imagination thus far notwithstanding he still might demonize Romney to such a degree that he’s unpalatable. And Romney may fall for it. Syria is a nightmare playing out in the middle distance. What if it erupts in October? How do the candidates react? How do we react? How long will Israel dilly dally with Iran? Will Romney choke in the debates? Doubtful, but the MSM is gunning for him.
A murder of brown swans is gathering somewhere. (Other than an alien invasion are there any real black swans left?)
Tonight my gut checks in thusly: Romney wins by 4%. The red/blue map goes back to where it was in 2004.
Related articles
- Poll gives Romney lead on economy despite Obama’s Bain attacks (thehill.com)
- Americans on Bain: Meh. (washingtonpost.com)
I have more poll analysis to share on tomorrow’s show.
Sure, the kind of “background in business” that brought us the financial crisis of 2008 would cause a venture capitalist to make good decisions dealing with the nation’s economic problems. Wall Street mentality could only do so much damage at Treasury; time to put it smack dab in the Oval Office. Makes as much sense as choosing George Bush and then Barack Obama. Not that there’s been any indication the American people have grown smarter the past few years.
Well, this is a Democracy and if that’s what the majority of Americans want then they deserve what they’re going to get. Unfortunately the rest of us have to live with their mess.
Venture capitalists had nothing to do with the financial meltdown. That was hedge funds, banks, and currency speculators. Venture capitalists are the folks who brought us the boom in the 1990s. They don’t play the markets; they play the startup and business angle.
Venture capitalists traffic in pooled investment instruments using capital from outside investors to make deals that are too risky for capital markets or commercial banks. That includes hedge funds and private equity and many other vehicles of high risk investment.
Venture capitalists and their clever creations are the very core of what led to the financial crisis of 2008, and to much more that’s chipped away at our middle class.
I’m not saying they’re to blame for the totality of our dying economy, but the financial meltdown in 2008 absolutely.
Yes venture capitalism brought us the boom of the 1990s; and the long string of deregulation that culminated in the overturning of Glass Steagall was what made those smarmy shenanigans a lawful scam. FDR and his advisors knew exactly what they were doing and lawmakers from Reagan to Clinton stupidly undid it.
What Mitt Romney did to make his fortune was legal and became standard practice, but it was an unconscionable bastardization of capitalist principles and betrayal of the working class. That $12 million property and ostentatiously luxurious mansion he’s planning to build in La Jolla comes at the expense of countless jobs and pensions that working people needed not as luxury but to put food on the table. The thought process that created that kind of success and destruction is perfect for leading public policy — if you want to ruin what’s left of our economy.
Thank you, Zal. You said it much more eloquently than I could have done.
“That $12 million property and ostentatiously luxurious mansion he’s planning to build in La Jolla comes at the expense of countless jobs and pensions that working people needed not as luxury but to put food on the table. ”
Zal — where’s the proof of this assertion? I mean it. Link something please?
Senneth — it sure is fascinating watching this. Reading what Romney supporters write (and how talking point similar it is, one to the next) is so reminiscent of how Obama supporters in 2008 behaved. It’s a window into who people are and how eagerly many Americans are snookered. This, history has revealed, is human nature when societal elements are ripe for it, as clearly they have been in the US for a decade. We’re, grimly enough, right on schedule. I’m glad to discover, again, I’m not the type to get drawn into a movement and that I seem to have a specific aversion to them.
Jay — there isn’t “a link” to this. Wouldn’t it be nice and tidy if there were? Understanding the private equity business and what’s happened the past 20 years, and how the practices would translate to public policy, takes more effort than clicking on a single link. I could link to an article from a credible source that agrees with my point of view, which I’ve done before, but it only gets dismissed. If you want to formulate your own informed opinion, you’ll have to do your own homework. But I won’t leave you without any link at all. I think a good place to start is the Naked Capitalism blog: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ .
If you want to really know about and understand VC and PE, the best primer on the subject, IMO, is Venture Capital and Private Equity: A Casebook, by Josh Lerner. I realize you probably aren’t interested in a 500 page book on the subject, but I mention it just in case. It’s a comprehensive tutorial, citing real case examples, in language a layman can understand.
When I first saw Obama’s “contrast” ad with the stirring singing voice of Romney singing America the Beautiful while showing closed factories, I thought it was a Romney ad, showing how Obama has destroyed America, and that Romney could return us to our former glory. It was a bad ad. We’re in the seventh-inning stretch and down by two runs.
Which team you rooting for, Kip?
Obama and his campaign do not get it and I do not think they are going to get it. I sort of, kind of agree with what I think Obama, originating with Warren, was getting at. The concept that we are all interconnected, dependent on each other for progress, build on what prior generations built, was filtered through Obama’s nasty, hectoring, and condescending personality and world view. What a Clinton or even a Reagan could have explained in inclusive and inspiring language, Obama turns into a scold. I find Obama’s language and attitude abusive. If all Obama is capable of is alternately bravado, bitching and whining, he will be increasingly tuned out. He cannot win if fewer and fewer people will listen to him.
Yup. People will agree with the concept of “we are all in this together so we should all pull together.”
But not with the concept of “you think you’re hot stuff – newsflash: you’re a useless POS.”
Yeah pretty much… when Obama speaks off the cuff he goes back to Community Organizer bullshitter mode and comes of as a sanctimonious douchebag… The whole “you didn’t build that” is a giveaway more to Obama’s sense of entitlement than anything else..
You Didn’t Build That (alone)
You Had Help (from the goverment via roads, etc.)
Translates to- You Owe Government for Your Success
Translates to – You Owe It To Me to Vote for Me Again
More and more Barry is just coming of as a smarmy little bitch who is in over his head.. even the gun control part of his speech yesterday, referencing how AK-47s only belong on the battlefield..one of things I would expect a Commander in Chief of the US Military to know is that an AK-47 is not an American rifle, the Colorado shooter had an AR15, which is the civilian version of an Army rifle (rate of fire/capacity reduced per assault weapon bans)… the streets of the US aren’t flooded with AK47s.. but again, the devil is in the details, and Barry just doesn’t seem to be all that concerned with the details and more and more it’s beginning to show in his speeches and the cracks in the facade of his persona are starting to show.
I give him credit for saying SOMETHING… but I think he’s just out of his depth.
When he was fresh faced and “new” and offering hope and change, people were inspired and willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, not all he can do is run on what meager accomplishments he’s had as President while simultaneously trying to run away from all of the sellouts/letdowns/dissapointments that come from the fact that the ideals that people were willing to project upon him really dont match up with the realities of his term as President.
If retail sales are any yardstick, Obama should be toast. Despite the horrid economy, lots of people still have the same jobs they’ve always had, and the same house payment, still they aren’t shopping much.There will be a flurry for back-to-school items, after which the urge to shop will evaporate.
This seems to reflect the lack of optimism that is prevalent everywhere. These same consumers are often the ones who believe the country is ‘on the wrong track’, so a fair number of them are
‘gettable’ by Romney. Whether he can persuade them, remains to be seen.
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Don’t forget the anticipated rise in food costs. Due to the draughts in the Midwest, corn crops have been nearly wiped out. The only corn that is remaining is barely enough to feed farm animals. Corn products (think corn syrup) are in everything. Also, dairy prices are anticipated to rise due to low milk production as well. The heat and arid conditions have stressed everything. It is yet to be seen what additional produce will be affected. Maple syrup will also skyrocket. People will feel the effect in early fall. Nothing to get people steamed like rising grocery prices when they don’t have jobs.
A good analysis:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/24/the-tribal-election-barack-obama-turns-to-the-karl-rove-playbook.html
Excellent link. Thanks!
I wish I could say I was surprised at how bad Obama would be as POTUS…I mean he was programed and installed expressly to be this bad…but I have to say this lousy, reheated left overs of a 2012 campaine has been a surprise…and now even that is coming apart.
This is rich….
Maybe I’m biased, but I find the RNC and superpac videos to be brilliantly-crafted and devastating. The latest gem:
This is the quote from Zal’s comments above and mirror my thoughts, at least for the most part. Kudos Zal, we might not agree on a lot of things but you articulate your opinions strongly without recourse to abuse, threats, vulgarity and violent speech. The direct un-emotive expressions of your opinions is interesting. ! Well, here is an excerpt from Zal’s comments-
*”Venture capitalists traffic in pooled investment instruments using capital from outside investors to make deals that are too risky for capital markets or commercial banks. That includes hedge funds and private equity and many other vehicles of high risk investment.
Venture capitalists and their clever creations are the very core of what led to the financial crisis of 2008, and to much more that’s chipped away at our middle class.
I’m not saying they’re to blame for the totality of our dying economy, but the financial meltdown in 2008 absolutely.
Yes venture capitalism brought us the boom of the 1990s; and the long string of deregulation that culminated in the overturning of Glass Steagall was what made those smarmy shenanigans a lawful scam. FDR and his advisors knew exactly what they were doing and lawmakers from Reagan to Clinton stupidly undid it.”
My belief is that a Romney presidency will take us back to the disaster that President Obama is still grappling with at this time, the 2008 meltdown of our financial rubric. I have no issue with Elitists and wealth, I grew up in a place where it was a integral part of our culture, and the stark class divisions were accepted AND embraced. It just was what it was and we accepted it. Yes, different from the egalitarian ideal aspired to by the U.S. but an integral part of my life nonetheless. However, even in those countries stratified by the elites, moneyed, the poor etc., to be elected into public office, both the moneyed and educated elite had to create a clear nexus between their experiences and how it would translate to good governance. It was not enough to be rich and appear entitled to be elected into the office you sought.
Romney reminds me of people I grew up with. The same people NOW at the helm of governance of the former British colony I once called home, those folks that have driven the country into the abyss of economic demise. The destruction of virtually every ladder for the middle class to rise has been eradicated there.
Even though America is a more developed and democratic country, I am unconvinced that Romney’s only calling card which is his much touted economic prowess is not a mere well packaged prevarication. The same types of lies that convinced me, and so many others, at least initially, that Iraq had WMD’s and led us to blindly support and justify the Iraqi war for a long time.
Venture capitalists and the deregulation Clinton embraced and further implemented, created the chaos in 2008 because of the explosions caused by their risky investments in a deregulated and largely unpoliced economic environment. Yes, many got very wealthy, so what does that prove? That Venture capitalists can take risks on the American economy and somehow make things work?
I know many on this blog have strong feelings about the president and the job he has done, I think we can agree to disagree on that. However, my strong feelings about Romney and his continued economic stomp speeches are predicated on the fact that I do not see the connection between his so called business prowess and his much touted economic dexterity.
Also, contrary to the silly remarks about group think and blind support for Obama by certain groups that I saw some commenter posit on another post, some of us disillusioned Conservatives are looking for some strong basis to convince us that a Romney presidency will bode better for the American economy as a whole. My feelings about a Romney Presidency are strong and very negative at this time.
Things are bad, yes, but should we turn the governance of the country over to Romney just because he was a Venture Capitalist, based on his specious claims of a connection between that experience and his ability to get us out of this economic morass.
I see the polls, and they are what they are. Whoever gets elected is president of all and we have to accept him. However, in the past, the public has shown its self to be easily manipulated and deceived, as I was during my rigid support of GW Bush. So, I do not think polls by the public or how they vote is an index of the persisting reality of the political issues at stake here. They will elect whom they will but it is important, at least for me, to discuss the perspectives of others in this debate.
http://blackrepublicanandmyworldview.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/disenfranchisement-of-voters-separating-fact-from-fiction/
So you and Zal both hate Romney. This is news because…….?
Mum, how can you ‘disagree’ that the signing of the NDAA isn’t a presidential atrocity? How can you ‘disagree’ that abandoning a public health insurance option if favor of a corporate- only system isn’t corrupt? The list of things that you want to ‘agree to disagree’ about is absurd.
Thanks, mum. But if you stick around (and I hope you do) you’ll discover I can be emotional and can be vulgar and abusive to anybody who’s abusive to me. I appreciate your turn the other cheek approach, admire it even, but my way is to give as good as I get. Or better. If someone throws dishes at me they’re likely to end up with a buffet on their head. It’s the way I avoid stress buildup and ulcers.
It’s curious you blame Clinton and Bush, and see that Romney would also contribute to the problem, but you characterize Obama as still grappling with the mess as if he alone of the group wants to improve our economy and has put forth real effort to do so.
In terms of the economy (and much more but that’s for another discussion) Obama is an unmitigated disaster as President, from choosing Geithner for Treasury and keeping Bernanke at the Fed, to failing to use his mandate and international popularity and Democratic control of Congress in 2009 and 2010 to push through hardcore regulations and requirements for the financial and insurance industries, tax reform, serious jobs legislation and real health care reform. These all relate to the economy, as does his failure to create a Manhattan Project for green energy and high capacity battery development to deal with the energy crisis that’s about to hit. His failure, in not even making an effort to formulate and fight for these things, is nothing short of outrageous. Criminal, in my opinion. I agree with the SD Union Tribune that he’s far and away the worst President in US history. Clinton made some bad choices and god knows Bush did, but Obama’s bad choices have insured this train wreck is going to happen and happen bad. There was still a chance in 2008, when Obama was elected, to turn this around and start building a healthy economy, there was actually lots of opportunity; it would’ve been hard and it would’ve been slow, but Hillary would’ve done it and Obama barely even tried, and now the opportunity is gone, and not even Hillary Clinton if she’s elected President in 2016 will be able to change the course of this catastrophe. Resources are depleted, tools are worn out, morale is sinking by the day, and the deterioration is too extreme. Obama inherited a mess but he was the one who cooked our goose.
There’s no doubt in my mind that whether it’s Obama or Romney in the White House come 2013 they’re going to let things continue to decline, if not actively hurry it along, and we’ll have to suffer the consequences while both the Obamas and the Romneys glide in armored planes to their gated mansions.
Obama is worse than Romney because Obama is a psychopath and lazy, doesn’t give a damn about anything or anyone but himself and his own aggrandizement, and one can never tell what someone like that will do except it won’t be in our best interest. Romney is worse than Obama because he isn’t lazy and has horrendous ideas about how to create financial and economic success, which make him and a very few very rich but will leave the vast majority destitute or nearly so.
Both stink…but if they didn’t stink ,they would not be offered as our laughable ” choice” …But Barry and Mittens certainly aren’t making choices either . They are front men . Whoever is hired as Greeter- -In- Chief , the course is set regardless.
@JayF: Hey, yes, you make very astute observations however, I have discussed and studied this issue in real time–and it was upheld–so it debating it, at least right now, does not interest me. All I can say is that if you read up healthcare reform in Wiki, the analysis there is quite objective and will address your positions. Also, the entire ACA case in the SCOTUS blog was quite detailed and dealt with many issues related to your concerns. The minority opinion was a blast.
But I know that sometimes, a person just needs a good debate. So, if you want to a vigorous debate the issue, quite a few law schools provide a detailed summary, and offer objective discourse in their Healthcare Law classes/bogs.Although, I am not certain that everyone can access those law school blogs. But, it is certainly worth a try. Bottom line is that I think the law is a good effort. But like any other piece of legislation, it carries it own stamp of political dirt and deal making. Since I like more about the law than I dislike it, I believe it is largely good law. Every law has its advantages and disadvantages, and even that statement has given rise to a lot of jurisprudential debate, also available on line, on the utility of this healthcare law.
And, just to reiterate, as I stated in my initial remark, we (I i.e. ME) agree to disagree on some issues. You know, free will? That means that even if you do not agree with my opinion on some matters concerning this administration or others, I make a choice whether or not to engage in further debate on those issues. Just because I do not want to do so for my own reasons, or just can’t be bothered.
@Zal, Hmm… I don’t know about turning the other cheek thing. I don’t do it. I enjoy a lively debate on many issues but I do not engage in abuse and threats and I find that quite sickening, and its worse when its some unnecessary exchange with faceless online handles. Outside of that, like you, I give as good as I get, and more. In my line of work, I guess you learn that you can disagree very strongly and still be very cordial, or could even be very good friends. Just good friends with very different views.
Well, when I read your remarks about Romney and Obama, even though I do not agree with you, I want to know something! Since you find both men obviously toxic, what do you propose? Everyone has to vote, so what will you do? Interestingly, your positions are oddly familiar, I hear it often from some very close family members, two in particular.
However, assuming for the sake of discourse, that the issues you raise are factual, and irrebutable, you have just identified the problems. That is the easy part. Now, what is a pragmatic solution?
http://blackrepublicanandmyworldview.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/disenfranchisement-of-voters-separating-fact-from-fiction/
@Anthony! Just want you to know that once I read your remark, I brought our my aluminum foil hat and wore it. I know your remarks were Jedi mind hypnosis.***Trandoshann me not change. argghhh will not- will not- will not- will not change** .. J/K
Missed you on the show tonight, mummax. But I guess cut-and-paste doesn’t translate to radio.
Oh, mum. “Because he’s black” is so much quicker to say and so much more honest. Just freakin’ say it. It’s not like I don’t understand the allegiance, it just lacks integrity.
Mum, for the first time in my life I still haven’t made an absolute decision because I’m watching to see how this unfolds (it’s improbable but possible I’ll vote for Romney, and also, reading what people like Lola and angienc and Anthony write I’m now beginning to waiver a little over Obama – these people are unquestionably as dangerous as Obamabots, in the same way in fact, and figuring out if there’s any way I think America can be protected from this madness grows more complex), but I’ll probably vote for Jill Stein, the Green candidate. I’m aware she won’t win, and usually in the past I’ve thought such a choice is wasting my vote but I’ve read her words and heard her speak and her proposals are what I support; as I’ve said here before if we don’t vote for what we want then we’re part of reason we keep getting what we don’t want. But it’s complicated and I’m still mulling over the whole mess and paying close attention to what people are doing and saying.
Have you read Eric Hoffer’s The True Believer?
mum, you look GREAT in tinfoil! Suits you well – the perfect accessory to enhance your rhetoric.
Zal, I’m flattered to be in such good company. Did I mention your “I hate Romney” vibe is eerily reminiscent of the Obots fury against Hillary in ’08? Funny how that works, isn’t it?
My opposition of Mitt Romney for President has none of the vagueness or personal attachment inherent in Obot support and attack, mine is very specifically a liberal’s principled opposition to how the practices and results of the Private Equity business, and beliefs of the ultra conservative and repressive Mormon church, would be applied to public policy. The same ABOs who now sing Romney’s praises have criticized Geithner’s influence on economic policy – well, going from Geithner heading Treasury to Romney in the Oval Office is leaping from frying pan to the fire.
Misunderstanding what I’ve said about some Romney supporters behaving the same way 2008 Obamabots did, clearly you have no clue about the nature of mass movements and fanaticism; nor, it seems, of informed support and opposition.
Look on the bright side, Zal. I (along with others you’ve mentioned) have given you the perfect excuse to finally admit that you’re “wavering a little over Obama”. This is not news to me.
I seriously doubt we can agree on the upcoming election, and if you’ve noticed I haven’t responded to a lot of your rants against Romney because I prefer to agree to disagree with you. But when you mention my name specifically – especially in the condescending and pejorative way you did – you should know that I’m gong to come back at you.
I’m not going to address your other (intended) insults. After considering the source, it is clear that I’ve struck a nerve
The only reason I’d vote for Obama would be to do my tiny part in keeping the next wave of fanatics from taking over, similar to the way I voted McCain in 2008. But I do realize it’s too late, this has become a pointless exercise, the Bushies, the Obots, the Romneites just keep passing it back and forth while the few with our heads about us try in vain to keep others from getting drawn into the vortex that’s so tempting with its energy and crowd appeal and deceitful promises. As I’ve been saying since Obama won in 2008, we’re cooked now. When mass movements swing right then left then right with equal fanaticism, as it has with Bush then Obama then Romney, the die is cast. That doesn’t mean I’ll stop speaking out while mass movement fanatics burn down our society, but I have no illusions about the insignificance of my vote one way or the other. Both sides are destroying this beautiful creation, gleefully and absent compassion, and now the only question is which side will beat the other to the final victory of ruining this nation that not so very long ago seemed would surely rank among the finest achievements in human history. In the context of human civilization, the United States’ golden era didn’t last long at all.
Jill Stein. 2012. It’s a choice I can live with. And it’s a good and important choice. I wish more people would realize that they don’t have to vote uni-party. As Jill says: Silence is not an effective strategy. Be heard. Walk away from the uni-party shell game.
A Quinnipac poll from yesterday of NY voters showed Blacks favoring Obama over Mitt 95 to 2.. Knee jerk vote much ?
I’m a little jealous that they have at least ONE trait they admire about a candidate in the coming election.
That’s racist of you to even bring up, Sophie!
Can you imagine the uproar if white New Yorkers favored Romney 95 to 2? Our culture is so damn *interesting*.
Zal, A few years ago I would have understood your concerns about “Right Wing” fanaticism. Even a normal Catholic Church I attended started holding something akin to revival meetings, speaking in tongues, included for free. I made a hasty exit. Eventually they got a new Monsignor who wasn’t nuts, and I returned.
The Religious Right, got way too big for their britches, most of us were raised to believe in strict separation of Church and State. There is still way too much overlap, imo, but not as bad as when Ralph Reid et al., were in their heyday…
I have always agreed with you on the difficulties inherent in a population that knows What to think, but no longer knows How to think..
Still, you sound almost despairing, it worries me.
.
Should we exchange old George Burns one liners and have a laugh or two ? I’m game if you are.
We who were raised to know there is a better way, and feel such grief over its’ disappearance, need to buck each other up. You have bucked me up on more than one occasion, maybe it’s my turn to return the favor ?
I credit my feeling better to a 5 lb. weight loss this week, am a bit giddy, sorry. If I get rid of the last five in the coming weeks, watch out for hysteria.
Speaking in Tongues? Catholics don’t do Tongues!! It’s unseemly.
Soph, thanks for your concern but this is knowing, not despairing. They can seem alike because knowing the truth is seeing the thorns in the garden; but also if one knows there are thorns one is better prepared to not get pricked. Still, as Sondheim wrote, “isn’t it nice to know a lot; and a little bit not.”
Before I could identify what’s been happening the past ten years I was, indeed, despairing. But after figuring out what’s going on –I guess it’s just the way I’m wired– I understand it and framed a problem I could solve. It’s true I can’t solve it for the world or the country or the city I loved or even the town where we own a house; but I can solve it for myself and those in my personal world, and in that is a solution, a change, productivity that moved me from despair to something approaching peace; despair, I believe, comes from confusion, frustration and purposelessness, as soon as one has a purpose and works it with passion, despair vanishes. If there comes a time that I can help more people, I’ll do that.
Mass movements that rise from fanaticism can be religious but they also can be political, as evidenced by what happened in Germany in the 1930s and Argentina in the 40s, and the United States in the 50s with McCarthyism. The religious right wing fanaticism you refer to was the beginning but it could go only so far because we live in a much more secular age than prior to the 20th Century and when the Religious Right faded from the front pages in fact the seeds of fanaticism were spreading, not receding. Fanaticism is much much worse today than when the GOP started exploiting it. It was a minority faction of the population then; today it’s a majority – as it became in Germany and Argentina – and that’s how it becomes a mass movement rather than a fringe group. The reason I say I realized when Obama won in 2008 that our goose was cooked is because it showed that the left was drawn to fanaticism as much as the Right. Fanaticism is never really about ideology or particular religious beliefs, that’s just what fanatics attach to; fanaticism an attempt by empty people to fill their self-identity, to feel important and safe as part of a group. Bushies were fanatics, Obamabots were fanatics, and now fanatics are rising up in the form of Lola and her minions. This is the way it happens. I asked Mum earlier and I ask you: have you read Eric Hoffer’s books about fanaticism and mass movements? He wrote the first in 1951 but it could be written today about what’s happening. The book’s still in print; read it; he explains this much better than I.
You needn’t be concerned for me; I’m not going crazy or despairing. What I see and describe is what’s happening. Those like me who recognized the same phenomenon in Germany and Argentina were attacked and pitied and dismissed the same way I am here. I get it. I have the advantage of having grown up hearing about Germany in the 1930s from Germans who were there, and maybe this takes the despair out of my knowingness: I don’t have hope this will turn around before these fanatics tear down all this, I know how it plays out, and am as prepared as I can be for what’s coming. We’ll all experience it; my knowing beforehand only gives me more time to smell the flowers, savor the wine and love my husband.
I’d like to think a win by Mitt would ensure that Hillary re-enter “for the country” in 2016 and finally help us all create the village that its gonna take. If Obama wins, we can forget another Democrat ever being elected in my lifetime as he’s destroyed the party I used to call home.
I’ve also got to question mumlawyerlettered2themax, “Venture capitalists and the deregulation Clinton embraced and further implemented, created the chaos in 2008 because of the explosions caused by their risky investments in a deregulated and largely unpoliced economic environment. Yes, many got very wealthy, so what does that prove?” Well, if George Bush hadn’t destroyed the prosperity and wealth the country was left in by Clinton we’d all be in better shape. Again with ” the public has shown its self to be easily manipulated and deceived, as I was during my rigid support of GW Bush”, and “The same types of lies that convinced me, and so many others, at least initially, that Iraq had WMD’s and led us to blindly support and justify the Iraqi war for a long time”. You seem easily manipulated. I rest my case.
Hmm….. This is one of the sillier remarks I have read in a while. What an asinine rush to judgement. How do you make that summation from this one portion of a statement you culled from my comment? Eh?
You are making an arbitrary judgement based on unclear and odd parameters. Rambling.. disconnected.
Althoughhhh it would still be foolish to make such a silly remark in judgment of one or two comments or even three. You my dear, hmm, I do not know if you are very easily manipulated and projecting it on to me (hey, I read all the pop psychology nonsense too– its fun..
…projection and all… ) based on your obvious rush to judgement, but I do know that your conclusion does not seem very analytical, and you do not seem too bright.
However, dumb of not, I thank you for the mirth you knowingly or inadvertently have provided me.
That is one of the great joys of communicating with the public online, you have to laugh because at times it seems so much like a clown gig. And after this long day. You gave me a good laugh. Cheers!
http://blackrepublicanandmyworldview.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/disenfranchisement-of-voters-separating-fact-from-fiction/
Sprichts du Deutsch, mummax? Kennst du die Bedeutung von “Vollschreiben”? Na, egal: du hast es zwar erschafft!
The trolls here have no idea what they’re talking about with venture capitalists. I don’t even bother after I get my first comment in.
Zal, thanks for the response. Your points make perfect sense, although being here in Norman Rockwell-land, it’s easy to get lulled into believing nothing has ever changed, I know better. Even here, if I squint, I can glimpse the incongruous sight of a small mosque on the opposite shore of the lake. I don’t know why this should surprise me, cooling off and escaping the heat is an almost universal pleasure.
A friend of my in laws escaped Germany in the nick of time, her stories of life there, have stayed with me over the years, I do see striking similarities to our lives today.
She once told us of a routine she worked out for getting a cup of coffee, when coffee became very scarce. She would go into a cafe and immediately order two cups at once, due to previously ordering only one and finding the price had gone up by the time she was ready for a re-fill. That was one of her ‘humorous’ stories…
I read Eric Hoffer year ago in almost another age, maybe it’s time for a re-read.
Glad to hear all is well, making life productive and loving, is always the best revenge against whatever nutty movement is currently in vogue.
I had a great grandmother who lived to be one hundred, I still remember her saying that most things come and go in life, the only things that really changed were the fashions, and even they came back eventually. We shouldn’t have to wait a hundred years to gain perspective, although in some cases, it does take that long. Her other habit for maintaining a serene life was a good sized shot of brandy before bed. There’s nothing like a good sleep for making the next day a pleasant one, is there ?
z
Darling, nobody is laughing harder than we are.
It’s always such fun to see a defeated Obot beat a hasty retreat!
Lonely no more, Liberal!
@Lonely liberal. And you wonder why you are lonely??? With all that word confusion and bitterness you evince, hardly surprising you are lonely,neglected? Are you in a room full of stray cats, maybe? I saw some show and the woman was a hoarder who had liberal postings all over her wall. Hope it was not you…. Seriously tho…am just kiddingggg…
Here are some pertinent definitions: Retreat definition: “The act of withdrawing, as into safety or privacy; retirement; seclusion”
Choice definition: the right, power, or opportunity to choose!
I DECLARE choice is the most potent asset online or elsewhere for anyone! One in support say AYE. AYE!!!
And just as a light hearted beginning to my weekend of long wonderful 10-mile runs with my lovely scenic views. I would also like to remind you of the Kenny Rogers Gambler song. One of the lyrics is that “you’ve gotta know when to fold up” —-and believe me lonely dear, you should know when to throw out the false teeth too. Get it??? Hope you enjoy my humorrr….
)) I kid around a lot ya see.
Life is too short for serious banter all the timee….PS: Also, a good way to meet people is to start a workout regime at a GYM. I have never tried it myself (I mean the meeting people part, even though I am a GYM “addict”) but have been told that it is a good start for lonely folks. Good luck, lonely liberal, hopefully you are not too neglected for long. Try the GYM, smile, loose the bitterness. Get them teeth whiter and it works…..
HA HA .. Just kidding with you mi dear!
Cheers!
http://blackrepublicanandmyworldview.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/disenfranchisement-of-voters-separating-fact-from-fiction/
Why y’all bothering to engage with such an obvious bullshit artist & full-time troll? Lola & Zal already give us plenty to fuss over.
Tamer, Anyone who speaks of their ‘mother country’ and then treats America so glibly, is quite confusing… I am suspicious. Real lawyers don’t have time for book length postings. I am all for a good fight, Lord knows Mouse and I had many. But mocking Americans who disagree with her adoration of the Won, is just nasty. Mocking others is the argument style of the weak. Hold on, here comes the R card, any minute now.
@Zal, interesting response. I am not deluded for one moment about our political reality but I do not share the same perspective that you do about all of it. You appear disillusioned by it all.
I am not. I am very optimistic about the future of this country because I believe that there are good people in the world, even in the world of politics, so even though things go wrong, I do not believe things are quite as dire as you have expressed in your comment.
I believe that the American democratic process is always imperfect BUT usually dynamic, and at this time, even though it is not evident, it is evolving and expanding. However, I am alarmed at the increased polarization and anger that is being fanned and promoted especially in this 24/7 news media and its sensationalism rubbish. I do think there are more refined ways of politicking, and know that if the media could be more sincere in their intent AND stop thrusting opinions on us disguised as news, the boorish opioid of political stupidity and vulgarity would be better contained. But I know that is just a dream. Money rules America, morality is no longer relevant. The Media is making their money as they fan more unthinking hysteria, distrust, fear and political delirium.
When Obama ran, I was excited that he had a vision of a united America. I know his hopes were very idealistic, but it gave me a glimpse of what could be. I lived in an extremely polarized society for quite a while, and even though we accepted all the divisions and I make no apologies for the circumstances of my birth or the things I enjoyed as a result of it, I much prefer a system in which all voices matter. The American democratic process is that system. It is a dynamic system of rich political discussions and exchanges, an index of a growing civilization. There will be strong voices, and strong opinions like mine, and yours too, I think! And over time, I am sure that things will evolve in a more positive manner. Yes, there will never be a perfect or incorruptible political system or governance, here in America or elsewhere, but I believe things can and will change for the better.
There are things that Obama has done that I do not necessarily support but I do not believe he is incompetent. And yes, I know that he has a significant amount of support in the minority community but that has always benefited Democrats, Obama is no different. I am not not enthralled by the manner in which the minority vote appears to have been co opted by the Democrats. But I am even more disdainful of the regurgitation of silly and unsubstantiated rationale by the news media and their vocal simple minded zombie following, in a bid to explain this minority trend. Their opinions are usually very insular, “simpleton couched” and churlish. I will discuss this issue with you at some point after I blog about it. It would be nice to hear your perspectives on my views at that time.The reason I mention this ancillary matter of the minority vote in this comment, though it is not related per se to the matter we are discussing, is to clarify that my preference of the president over Romney is not based on some engineered “Democratic party” media induced polarization. I am not a Democrat and have never been. However, I do not think Romney is good for America, period.
One of the things that threw me for a loop in Obama’s first term was that he elected to overhaul healthcare in his first term. There were other issues I thought were more pressing. As for Romney, I did not like Romney in MA, I did not understand his governance, what he stood for, or hoped to achieve. He ran as a Republican in a “liberal” state, so he should have expected the resistance from congress etc. in the State. I abhor people who openly vaccilate on positions. Note, I said “openly” because politicians change and change, but Romney as governor in MA, at least in my opinion, epitomized the brazen political strumpet. *Sigh* He did not run for a second term as MA governor because he knew he would have lost woefully per the polls. He was very unpopular at that time because he was, just as he is now– simply making connections and claims about his business acumen that he did not deliver on, and links with his business experience that never materialized.
Unlike you though, I do not believe Romney is incompetent or dangerous. I just do not think that his much touted Venture capitalist qualification, and the persisting, albeit inexplicable, link of good economic governance with his wealth and venture capitalist experience, are supportable. His willingness to be used so OPENLY by the political heavyweights that control the American economy and dialogue, is also disconcerting. Again, I use the word openly because most people know that Washington is controlled by the lobbyists. However, in this post “Citizens United” era, I do not think lobbying will be so pronounced. The corporate interests will simply elect their own puppet to do their bidding thereby negating the need for unending lobbying.
Have you had a chance to read Romney’s 59-point blueprint on his site. I do not think it evinces a modicum of fiscal conservatism. All those tax breaks and cuts will grow the deficit. Since the economy is shrinking, I do not think cuts are evidence of any fiscally responsibility. It is all a show. I have sent the Romney folks an email asking for a break down of the numbers based on the policies they propose for a Romney presidency. I hope they respond to me so I can see how all those tax cuts and increases in defense spending will reduce the deficit. If I do get a response, I will share it on my blog. I know Romney is definitely not a solution but I find the “anyone but Obama” cries quite astonishing.
It seems so pedestrian for an advanced country to be so raw and brash in their political decision making. This is why I enjoyed reading your comment even though I do not agree with you. Your explanation about your preferences and views are rational and well reasoned, although it was quite gloomy.
Even though I do not agree with you, I think that if the average voter thought in any depth about the political process as you have done, the outcome of this election would be a true reflection of a calculated sequence of reasoned decisions. I am passionate about politics but will accept whoever the majority elect. It just is what it is. Lets hope people continue to ruminate on the core issues that should impact their voting decisions.
I have not read the book you referenced by Eric Hoffer. I hope it has an optimistic outlook! What is it about? Zal, I am one of the glass full folks. I believe in the goodness of humanity and the strength of the human Spirit. Yes, I know the economic, political and social problems that beset us in America, and have spent years studying to understand these issues. At this time, I am more interested in solutions.
I am having another looong day. Hope yours is “shorter’ than mine.
Cheers!
http://blackrepublicanandmyworldview.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/disenfranchisement-of-voters-separating-fact-from-fiction/
@Anthony Thanks. My Aluminum garments match yours. Please let me know where you purchased your full length aluminum robe.
*no no must not change, cannot, no jedi mind trick no arggghhh*
http://blackrepublicanandmyworldview.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/disenfranchisement-of-voters-separating-fact-from-fiction/
Mum, be careful, running ten miles in Chicago could be dangerous, even around the lake.
I say full speed ahead
Can we have team jerseys please. It’s getting hard to tell who is on which team.