By Anthony
The Dog and Pony shows are finally over, and what I’ve learned is that professional politicians don’t have one single clue on how to do their job anymore. Where was the inspiration? Where were the “Aha!” moments? Neither convention gave us anything to look forward to except the debates, as Peggy Noonan (of all people) points out. Sadly, the most notable moments for me had nothing to do with the candidates themselves. I was blown away by Susana Martinez’s speech during the RNC Convention, and I must say that Joe Biden’s presentation was far more electric than Obama’s big thud.
There was, however, one undeniably harsh personal revelation that came to light: I just might be one of the “hero worshipers’ that Jay’s recent post exposed. Like the recipient of a well delivered sucker punch, this sucker was clocked out of left field and knocked on his ass.
Et tu, Willy?
Bill Clinton’s speech left me – well, speechless. It was everything I expected, and also nothing I anticipated. I recently wrote a post about why Barack Obama strong-armed Clinton into pandering for him based on info I got from an inside source:
My source tells me that ObamaKamp believes that Clinton’s presence will
trickconvince his dwindling base that Obama will be a President who will have the same respect and trust of the GOP that Clinton had. Me? I think Bill Clinton will totally dwarf Obama, and remind us what we could have had if the Democrats didn’t kill Hillary’s campaign. But Bill Clinton is a good egg, and he’s always willing to help. I’m sure he’ll do his best to make sure we see exactly why Obama should have a second term ( lol )
I fully expected WJC to go off script. As a matter of fact, I was looking forward to it, but I was totally unprepared for what came out of his mouth. I went out to dinner around 10pm as usual, and I looked forward to coming home and watching him in action.
WTF?!
The first part was exactly as I hoped – Bill promoting the Clinton brand, and making a case for a (future?) Democratic President. He stumbled over a few words here and there (I believe he called the POTUS either ‘O-Biden’ or ‘O-Bottom’ – either is fine with me) ¬†and then, something slipped out of his mouth that I wasn’t expecting: “Heck, he even appointed Hillary!” (great isolated video on that link).
I looked at Son (my cat), and said “What the fuck is he thinking?!” Son got up and walked away, tail in the air. Good thing, because he surely would have upchucked if he stuck around and saw that subservient bow that Clinton gave to Obama when he sauntered out onto the stage.
At that point, I had to turn it off and do some serious soul searching. I found myself desperately finding excuses why Bill Clinton would disrespect himself and his wife to support an empty suit, and eventually had to admit that I was in need of an intervention. Or an exorcism.
I thought: “I trust WJC and I’ m sure I’ll find a way to forgive him for what he said about this fraud last night. How f*cked up is that? Makes me wonder why I’m so loyal.
Its moments like this that I’m painfully reminded that successful politicians are just that ‚ politicians. Its all about putting party first, even before their own honorable word.
With his own hand, Bill Clinton has proven that Clinton Democrats are no more. I guess this is one of those moments of faith for me ‚ and to me, faith means believing where logic tells you not to. Still, I find myself searching for a reason not to acknowledge this egregious subservience to an inferior President Maybe if he just left out the bowing when The Dog Eater showed up I would feel differently? Or maybe I really do need an exorcism…
Oh my goodness…Anthony, yes, I hear what you are saying…and so eloquently…
This was my gut reaction, which took my by surprise. In refining my thoughts, I have to admit they’ve evolved to reflect some of the comments and explanations below, but I still wonder if it is my hero worship kicking in or not.
All in all, I appreciate the fact that I became alarmed with my scrambling to come up with an excuse or explanation for WJC – especially after reading Jay’s post the other day. Hero worship is something we’re all prone to from time to time, and it can get out of hand (ex: any Obot)
Also, if I can’t shake it by Sunday, I am prepared to attempt a self-exorcism ON THE AIR at Peacocks and Lilies on Sunday afternoon
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/peacocksandlilies/2012/09/09/reaction-to-democratic-convention
This is what I saw Wednesday night:
I am John Smart and I approve the gentleman in the clip above.
It took me a minute to get past the hottie, but after watching the ad, I totally agree.
I’ve been trying to post links to the site, and one in particular on Ulsterman right now talks about the backstage fracas between Bill Clinton and Valerie Jarrett/Obama… how Clinton went way overtime on his speech to piss Obama off and twist the knife, reminding people that “Barack Obama is no Bill Clinton”.
I cant link to it, but I’d suggest you all read it with a grain of salt.
On one hand, posts like that tend to validate my own “hero worship” of Clinton.. the rogue, the master orator, the master manipulator and brilliant politician… I’d very much like to believe it’s true.. I want it to be true… I want Clinton to be that smart, to thumb his nose at Obama.. that jives with my mental, albeit heroic, image of Clinton.
Taken at face value, although Clinton gave a great speech, it struck me as a political quid-pro-quo… all of the other stuff, the strategy, the thinking behind it, the payback for being called a racist, the payback for Hillary.. that may indeed just be my own projections on what I’d like Clinton to be… in the same way that new Democrats project upon Obama….and the reality is that it might’ve been two political hacks just doing what they do.
Thanks for the great post Anthony, I’ll try and share another link in a reply.
yeah WP is not posting my URLs for some reason.
There are some great articles on the National Review currently, but you’ll all have to go find them yourself.
That was my gut reaction when I was watching the broadcast. It made me aware of my own hero worship, and I have to say I became more than a little uncomfortable with it. ‘
It brought to mind the parable of the scorpion and the frog
http://www.aesopfables.com/cgi/aesop1.cgi?4&TheScorpionandtheFrog
after I have also given this more thought, particularly because I do feel that while Bill may have valid motives, perhaps for Hillary’s future, etc…I do actually feel he is being used by O and that any chance O has, he will try to marginalize Bill when O is done using him…
…cannot help picturing Bill when he was talking about how politics can be a ‘noble’ endeavor instead of a ‘blood sport’ and how he has lived and succeeded that noble endeavor outside of elected office…..as smart and as strategic as Bill is…his path since his Presidency does indicate a belief in that nobility…
…however Bill walked into the snake pit with O…the Chicago cabal cannot be trusted to not turn not only on Bill, but also Hillary…they are so underhanded and it would not surprise me for them to try to undermine Bill’s legacy (or Hillary) in some covert ways…
(in fact the more I think of it, if O loses, what is to stop him from running against Hillary…or pushing her out before she even gets in…in 2016…there are no guarantees with O…the man cannot be trusted at all)
…and then the more I thought about Wed night I thought…Bill is the last twice elected Democrat who held office and also during a time of peace and prosperity…and actually Bill’s place on Wed night should have been one of honoring him…just singling him out for the achievement and place in history he has…
sure there was a little of his brand, and the CGI, etc…but in any other venue minus the hero worship due O…Bill would have been honored as President Bill Clinton, two term Democratic President…bla, bla, bla…
…instead he was there to prop up O…
I agree with Dan. Clinton knew exactly what he was doing. He pulled out all the stops knowing that Obama couldn’t top it. And like others have posted here, many listeners unquestionably wished that Clinton were the nominee.
After the convention, people are still talking about Clinton’s speech. They’ve forgotten Obamas.
I also thought the bow was meant to remind people of the Obama bow — that is the first thing that occurred to me when Clinton did it. When I first saw the speech, I also thought wow, Billy J. is so good, he just got Obama re-elected. That may yet be true, however, I also thought in retrospect, how pathetic is it that the man you tried to run out of the party on a rail 4 years earlier has to be begged to come back and stand there a la “Sister Mary Ignatius Explains it All For You” — isn’t the line — if you’re explaining, you’re losing? Doesn’t it look a little pathetic that the former president has to stand there and explain what the current president does not seem capable of explaining? The great orator is not even capable of making his case to the American people? Plus the fact that Clinton told a number of fibs apparently.
At the end of the day, I think it just re-establishes the Clinton brand, makes us miss Hillary and makes Obama look a bit sad by comparison. But that’s just me.
WP is still eating my posts.. see the article from WHI on the Ulsterman website…
excerpt:
WHI: Bill’s speech was double the time they gave him. Had Obama waiting. Kept the current POTUS waiting for almost an hour. Handlers not happy. Jarrett pissed. They do that little shake at the end when Obama walks out. Backstage, Bill says something like, “He wanted to break my hand.” He’s laughing it off. Knows what he wanted to do was done. Obama storms off. The two were all smiles onstage. Backstage, they parted. Bill’s getting congratulated and Obama is gone. Told somebody, was a woman so assume Jarrett but didn’t ask for clarification, took Bill aside and was shaking her finger in his face for a moment. Bill leaned down and whispered something to her and she walks off. He goes back to smiling and the handshakes. Classic Clinton. The smiling assassin. And what is the feedback today? That Obama’s speech was not as good as Clintons. That he isn’t Clinton. Look up the Bentsen reference. That’s what we saw Clinton pull off this week.
Sorry Dan. Here is the ulsterman post:
http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/09/07/white-house-insider-bill-clinton-vs-valerie-jarrett-backstage-at-dnc/
Have any of the bits of tid from Ulstermann come to pass in such a way that lends credence to his reports? I love reading them, but haven’t noticed them to be horrible prescient.
I think Ulsterman probably has some contacts on the hill, and strings stories together in an entertaining way…more oped pieces than anything else… But if whatever gossip he is getting is valid, I tend to think its legit..not the whole insider bs, thats an affectation… But there are nuggets of validity within the overall cloak and dagger fluff.
My guess is that he’s probably got a few people that gossip to him about Beltway stuff…maybe he’s a bartender in DC…who knows… But his site entertains me in a hard boiled pulp sort of way
Agreed, Dan. I enjoy the read. And I don’t even like Mamet.
Interesting how we are all reminded of something different from 2008. I can’t get past the bow. For me, it is a scathing reminder of how often Barry Soetoro bows on behalf of the USA. A very deliberate “don’t you forget” that the bow. I can’t imagine that WJC would bow to teh won just because.
http://www.wnd.com/files/2012/09/EMPTY-CHAIR-obama-on-mt-rushmore.jpg
BTW, there is now an excuse for Barry sucking the big one. It wasn’t WJC showing him up, it was his intention to purposely be low key.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/07/why-obama-went-low-key-in-his-democratic-convention-speech.html
You mean like this?
Yes, that was the very first thing I thought of when I saw the bow. A not-too subtle reminder of a time, not so very long ago, when the President of the United States wasn’t a clueless amateur.
ROFLMAO
Yes, like that Anthony.
“Obama and his advisers had taken great pains to avoid soaring rhetoric that might have been derided as empty.”
Hah – so instead he spewed mediocre rhetoric that’s being derided as empty.
yeah, i was thinking the same thing, that it was sort of an inside insult… because bill doesn’t bow, so that was out of character. i think he was basically saying something with that bow, that ob bows to people he shouldn’t be bowing too, so clinton bowed to someone he shouldn’t be bowing too. but that is just my own point of view on it, because i haven’t seen wjc bow so obviously before, or at least i never noticed it before if he had… it was kind of in my mind a f you, i am done kissing your arse, this is it, i am over you and done doing what you all think i should do for you who is never going to be as good as me at being president
hahasnark from wjc to ob.
I hadn’t seen the bow before because I turned it off during Bill’s conclusion, but to me it looks like he’s making a joke to Obama’s face about him bowing to King Abdullah. It makes the same ridiculous point. Who the eff is an American president to be bowing to some Saudi king? And who the eff is Bill Clinton to be bowing to Barack Obama? That’s my take, anyway.
Reminder:
about him bowing to King Abdullah.
Indeed, Bill’s bow looked just like it.
I saw the Clinton “bow” as pure “you are a small man and a worthless sack of shit”, with the Bill assassin smile to go with it. I am also old enough to remember this 1967 LIFE mag. photo:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/lt-cmdr-richard-a-stratton-navy-pilot-captured-by-north-news-photo/50373476
Yup. It was a clue-by-four from Clinton that he was giving the ultimate hostage speech.
nice, that’s what i see too…
My favorite is this one
http://thewackydeli.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/obamaburgerking-jpeg.jpg
The bow didn’t bother me in the least. That he was THERE did, at first, then I sort of got used to it. “They’re politicians. This is what they do.” The bow was just like finding out that your cancer has cancer. Who cares?
I actually think it just meshes well with what politics really is or has become: Theatre.
I forget who said it, but politics is showbiz for ugly people.
Yes, it’s all theatre. Consider the top 3 most talked-about moments of the two political conventions. In no particular order, they are:
1. Clint Eastwood’s empty chair routine
2. The God-and-Jerusalem DNC sideshow
3. Bill Clinton’s carnival barker speech
I just figured it was the opening salvo of Hillary’s 2016 campaign.
jen, i think the 4th most talked about thing was probably the huge bench that the repubs showed, that they are ready for their future unlike the dems who have no clue…
The majority of Americans that saw Bill’s speech weren’t looking for the subtle nuances of hidden subliminal messages. They saw a former POTUS that oversaw the best economy in recent memory tell them he loves Obama and they should vote for him and why.
That’s what’s in the ads running right now and……
THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS.
:nodding:
True – sometimes there’s a perfectly simple explanation
yes, and that is why I keep the mute button close by…because those ads are running nonstop and as I mentioned last thread…I cannot stand watching Bill “pimp’ for O…the speech was bad enough…now endless ads on tv…and Bill goes off to raise money for O in Florida and elsewhere…
…yes, I agree with those who say Bill is strategic, etc…but the ads, the money, the rest of it…really is sickening…
thank goodness Hillary is (was) in China…
My comments are going down the rabbit hole, where they probably belong, so if this posts twice, please indulge me.
Bill and O remind me of nothing less than that divorced couple who insist they are good friends, and are often seen in social settings.. Despite their words, if you are around them for five minutes, your nose twitches, and all you smell is a sack load of unresolved issues.
As for hero worship, we have been warned about false gods dating back to the Ten Suggestions, some things in human nature never change.
Dog and Pony show- yes. Bread and circuses too. Meanwhile, here we are out in real life- trying to hold on and just survive.
Keep them divided as they try to divide us. Don’t let any one party get control of the whole apparatus.
I’m amazed at the opinion expressed here by some that Bill Clinton is an 11-dimensional chess master by intentionally showing up obama with his rousing speech; and that it was part of some brilliant plan to either a) bring down barry, or b) launch Hillary’s ’16 campaign. Talk about hero worship straying into delusion!
I think that’s what I was owning up to in my posts, i don’t want to believe Clinton is just another political hack, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
Tamerlane, when I found myself grasping at straws to come up with an excuse, I had to admit that about myself. Thats what prompted me to write about it.
Dan – you’re right on the money. Another reason to re-read The Scorpion and the Frog (at least for me).(btw – check your email. John forwarded you some info you asked for
I do think this is being over thought. DE is right: Bill C is going to help BHO with working class white voters. Obama needs to get to 40% with them to win. Bubba helps. A lot.
just 2 new pics this week:
http://losangelesgd.wordpress.com/
Excellent pics, John. A Rambler that’s still running? And the skater boyz pic is also a great capture.
I have to either disagree or do more thinking about your assertion that Clinton helped Obama with working class white voters. I’ve heard a small amount of buzz on the street from that demographic, and many expressed mild regret at Clinton’s attempt to pimp Obama.
Most seem to dismiss the endorsement with a shake of their head and a “Politicians – Pfft! Go figure?” attitude. Rather than overthink it, Clinton’s performance is just dismissed. But there is no way that they’ve changed their mind about voting for Obama. That remains clear.
At least, that’s the way it is on the East Coast. I would be interested in hearing about what’s going on in other parts of the country.
Frankly – I think we are all overthinking all of these conventions. Almost no one watched them. And, you can bet the people who did watch them absolutely had made up their minds long before. And, we probably over estimate how much people – other than diehard Clinton fans – still hang on Bill’s every word. I think people have a warm spot in their heart for him and believe he was a good president, but I wonder how many people will be swayed one way or the other by his endorsement. After all – more people watched Here Comes Honey Boo Boo than Clinton’s speech.
Funny run…who would ever have thought that Honey Boo Boo would equal WJC ratings? Dog and pony shoe is right. We are so easily distracted as a society.
That would be show and not shoe, but you already knew that. lol
BOO BOO 2012! LET THEM EAT CHEESE BALLS!
Well, there’s something more honest about it than the shit we heard during the conventions.
Yes Jay Boo Boo 2012!
hahahahaha
The more I see those Texan Twin Dem creatures, the creepier they get.
Anthony, I did, in fact, hear some anecdotal info today…from florida… one woman (not the person I was talking to) has decided to vote for Obama, in essence, because she thinks the economy will turn up, if MR is in Hillary has no chance, if Obama is in, she does. THAT is the demographic that matters right there. And my hunch is it’s what Bill C was thinking too. It’s only one example. Don’t know if it’s true else where. I also do not know how effective Bill’s speech really was in real time but I think the planting of the narrative worked. Brand Clinton is called “Obama” for now. The ads I’m seeing on facebook etc indicate that BHO’s team knows this polls well. “Bill and Barry” – “Thank the President” – with a pic of CLINTON!!! not Barry. Barry’s speech has vanished. Also probably planned.
And I keep coming back to my thesis points:
1. Romney did not handle July and August correctly and it will – is – haunting him. The race was too close all summer. MR needed to sink Obama as far as possible during the summer. Historically, given the economic numbers, MR should be up by 6- 9 right now. He could have been if “incompetence” had been hammered and hammered. Where is Fast and furious? Where was the coordinated overwhelming attack on crony capitalism? We should all feel Obama’s people might be evil morons right now, instead we all think Romney is “out of touch” and Obama has kinda failed but he’s okay. He should not be “okay” now. He should be “incompetent and maybe dangerous.” Reagan did not need to do this to Carter in 80 because the Iranians did it for him. And we found out later he paid them for their help.
2. The media is compulsively pro Obama. It’s embedded. Unfixable. This was not calculated in the MR strategy as far as I can tell. Not smartly anyway. The only way to get around this is to make Obama answer charges with an all out, coordinated assault. Rove did this in 04. In august. So did Atwater in 1988. Also in August. Even if people in the media wanted Kerry the only thing Rove allowed them to talk about was the Vietnam story. Rove controlled that month. I sense MR’s team works in a board room, not a war room. Politics is war. The chicago thugs know this. It’s who they are.
Combine #1 and #2 and the September narrative is set. Obama up by 5. (see today’s Gallup and Reuters polls) Which means MR has the debates to win it. The media won’t let him. Period. Even if he’s perfect. BHO will have to pick his nose, eat his snot, then shit on stage to “lose” the spin. My guess is that within 3 weeks Obama will be touted as the clear favorite, which will then become self full filling. The right tactic was to get after Obama in August brutally, be up by 3-6 now and then come across as “acceptable and viable” in the debates.
MR’s ace in the hole is money. This is where i could be wrong. If the Romney shock and awe is good it might work. This is where MR is NOT like Kerry and Dukakis. He has real money and a lot of it. Don’t know what will happen. I now think MR needs all that money and some help from outside events. Outside events happen. Wall street does NOT want Obama this time. And they are people who get what they want.
We shall see.
Now we need Lola on here to slap my comments down…which, FYI, I enjoy. She will find the weakness in the above argument.
What you heard from the woman in Fla validates my interpretation of the Clinton speech and in turn makes it easier for me to see him as less than a hero. I’ve got to hand it to him – it took me (and many others) a hell of a long time to see that his nature as a politician would overshadow all the positive accomplishments he achieved during his stint in DC. I’m still willing to overlook some of this, but only with disappointment – and that being at my own naïveté at expecting a brilliant politician to be anything but that
Agree, it will be interesting to hear what Lola has to say about this. In response to one point (Fast & Furious), scuttlebutt among the interns at a local news outlet has it that a lot of the DOJ stuff is going to be in our faces soon via Romney PACs, and not subtly. It will be interesting to see how Romney presents himself on Meet the Press tomorrow morning. My guess is that he’ll leave the attacks to the attack dogs and try to come across as reasonable and not combative, which might be a mistake. BTW – I’m still voting for him.
There are no weaknesses in your argument John, you’re spot on.
Lola/AB will do her due dilligence to find flaws, weaknesses and anecdote to find flaws and support Romney as the candidate for President in 2012… Im not saying this as a criticism or judgemnt against Lola/AB, but she’s personally invested in Romney winning in 2012… I have no problem with that, but it’s as simple as that.
Having said that, ANY DAY that Romney is not HAMMERING Obama in the media over the failures of his presidency or the sketchiness of his past is a day wasted for his campaign. The kid gloves have to come off against Obama, everything has to be on the table. The media will do everything they can to stop those criticisms from catching on, but the idea that Romney is going to be begin carpet bombing Obama in the media has to start and it has to be relentless for the next two months.
As far as debates, I think the first debate on Oct 3 will probably be a snooze fest as both sides feel eachothers weaknesses out (I’m more successful, NO I’m more successful), then I expect Ryan to go aggressively after Obama/Biden on the 11th and both teams will see how that plays.. if it works, look for Romney to be more aggressive on Obama in the final 2, if it doesn’t work, then the media will spin the debates as an Obama win.
Romney has to do everything he can to spin the decisions and leadership Obama has shown against him.. THIS IS VERY HARD because Obama doesn’t really ultimately STAND for anything..so it’s hard to pin stuff on him… but he’s got one shitty term hanging around his neck like an albatross, and Romney needs to hit him and hit him constantly and hard.
I give the slight edge to Romney at this point because I think polls are constantly being messed with (based on Tamerlane’s ongoing research) and based on the fact that Romney has more money going into the debates than Obama has left.
I also think that for going after undecideds Romney gave a better speech/alternative than Obama gave a convincing case to stick with him for 4 more years.
A,
My comment is not meant to change any votes at all. Certainly not toward Obama, a man I loath. It’s my take on the race. What I see. I know I miss stuff and could be wrong. (See my posts on Jon Huntsman….ooops.) The conversation interests me.
I’ve advocated for MR’s team to get brutal for a long time now. I thought Obama would (he did) and that the only response would have to be a full body take down of Obama, which would demoralize his base. In my view, this should have happened in the summer. They have not done this and the Obot base, combined with Obama media ass licking, (almost the same thing) might be Romney’s undoing by the Fall. Patty cake with a people who intend to break your wrists doesn’t work. If MR is going to take down Obama now it must be done in 3 weeks. And finessed. The time for the sledgehammer was missed.
As for Bill, I get the disappointment. I suspect i don’t feel it as much because I’ve long seen both Clintons are political operators of the highest order. They are also people who often have us in mind, which can’t be said for most – or maybe any – major politicians. On Wed. Bill Clinton reasserted himself as the supreme orator and politician of our lifetimes. No matter who wins, Clinton spanked Obama hard – on TV – for an hour – by reminding us what a President looked and sounded like. I do take pleasure in that.
not to be redundant, but since you mentioned the woman in Florida…that is the problem with what Bill is doing…the ad Bill did for O is on constantly in Florida…Bill is in Florida now, campaigning and raising money for O and sadly, for those of us that want O gone…Bill is REINFORCING and picking up where he left off at the convention…and taking the Bill and O show on the road…
for me…this is way, way beyond the call of duty…
Bill…pull back for the sake of the country…enough already…
Considering the fact that O has greatly expanded both the numbers of gov’t employees, and the relaxing of requirements for gov’t benefits, a case can be made for Obama squeaking out another term. After all, the downtrodden are entitled to the loudest voices, aren’t they? However, there are more downtrodden than ever, so who is listening and what are they doing about them ?
And who is left to pay the bills ?
If voters would look at voting as a hire/fire situation, Romney would win in a landslide, if they don’t,, well, buy a parachute and hope it helps when the edge of the cliff is reached.
Whats with the disappointment with Bill? He gave a fantastic speech. Maybe he really thinks Obama is better for millions of Americans rather than Romney. I applaud putting others interest before your own personal grudges, etc. Maybe I’m crazy that way, but I respect Bill for doing what he did–it surely wasn’t his favorite thing to do, but he did it nonetheless.
why is the clinton camp letting it leak that his closet advisor, Doug Band, will be voting for Romney?
…i can’t speak for everyone, but i would bet that this disappointment is not only Bill’s speech, but now his roadshow for O … because most of us want O gone, gone, gone…
Srsly?
Most Obama supporters share your view, as does the DNC. I didn’t say his speech wasn’t fantastic. I think we’re all in agreement with that. What I (and others) did say is that although we fully expected him to promote his own brand along with the Democratic Party, it was like having a bucket of cold water dumped on us to realize that Bill Clinton is just another politician.
That does not take away from the fact that he was a great President, but even you have to admit that he put politics before his own persona, which is a disappointment to those of us who trusted Bill Clinton ‘the person’ before Bill Clinton ‘the politician’.
Yes, seriously. I’m shocked that you are shocked by my comment, which seems kind of obvious.
Seriously, you think Bill finds Romney to be a better leader/pol for most Americans than Obama?
I guess I am arguing with a republican here? In that case, we will just disagree. It’s nonsensical to expect WJC to get up and trash Obama. Wanting Obama out because you are a republican makes sense to me, but arguing that Romney is better than Obama because you are still angry about 2008 is a different deal altogether.
No, I do not think putting politics before persona is bad….I am actually impressed that he put politics before his personal feelings.
Anthony, Honor is a sacred word, it doesn’t belong in the same sentence with O, even if is used in referencing another person..Much as I adore Bill Clinton, he has become much better acquainted with Honor since his stewardship of his foundation..
Bill Clinton did exactly what I said he’d do.
It was easy to predict because I don’t fantasize he’s who I want him to be, I see him for who he shows he is.
Reading this post and some of these comments cracks me up because some of you actually believe you know him when what you really know is your fantasy. And you’ll continue in that fantasy ignorant thought process because your response to this will be defensiveness and self protection rather than learning. That’s typical of hero worship and movement followers. You’re easy to fool because you’re straining at the gate to be fooled.
There wasn’t a single surprise during the Democratic convention.
Zal, that’s exactly what this post was about. Why all the gloating?
Uh, no one claims to “know” Clinton. We base our predictions off of past behavior. This is something I will claim: you fall somewhere in the DSM-IV for diagnosis, perhaps under narcissism. Your post drips with self-importance and other general ickiness. But please, tear me from the gates, and teach me, for you are the one who knows.
“I see him for who he shows he is. I , I I.”
Give me a break.
Anthony–I stupidly did not see that you wrote the original post. I still do not see why you are upset–did you think he was going to say something else? I am genuinely wondering here. No snark, unlike the previous paragraph.
Kara, what I did not expect was the bow and the “Heck, he even appointed Hillary” crack, as if it was such a bfd for him to condescend and appoint the best SOS since Albright. It just didn’t sit well with me.
Yes Kara, Anthony’s post –and comments in the weeks leading up to the speech– does imply he felt he knew Clinton and was sure Clinton would take veiled swipes at Obama and try to undermine him.
My prediction came from observing what Clinton shows he is, not from feeling, believing, I know him. And Anthony can call it gloating, you can call it self importance, but the truth is still the truth no matter how you try to belittle the message or messenger. What I predicted was spot on and what Anthony predicted was completely wrong. I point this out because otherwise the pretending just continues, as it has in this thread, substantively unquestioned, and the same poor choices keep being made while the Anthonys of the United States shake their heads blaming the wrong people and clueless about how this disaster keeps getting worse. This insistence on elevating ignorance and shunning competence, with mocking or attacking or whatever tactic –which is exactly what Obama and his bots did to Hillary– is part of the problem. I know how and why it’s getting worse, some others do as well, but as usual today those voices get denigrated and dismissed. Obsessing style over substance and believing feelings are facts is a sure way to get it wrong.
That’s because you thought Clinton wouldn’t commit to his part of the bargain.
But it wouldn’t surprise you if you believed what Clinton has shown he is. He’s completely consistent — but you look at only the superficial and what you’ve decided in your own fantasies he is. I’ve seen you do exactly the same about Romney.
Clinton won when Democrats had become a laughing stock in terms of the White House, and Clinton’s continued to be successful since: he makes his deal with the devil and commits to it. It helps to know his whole life story but you don’t even have to look into his machinations pre-Washington; start when he became a Presidential candidate. Bill Clinton would never have been a viable Democratic candidate to run against the Reagan legacy if it hadn’t been for his benefactress Pamela Harriman, who was one of the most potent devils of of the 20th Century. She was evil. He made his deal with the devil then, he’s made those deals probably a dozen times since, and he made it with Obama the past couple of months. That’s what Bill Clinton does to get and keep himself on top.
The good thing about Bill Clinton is that, unlike Reagan and Bush and Obama and Romney, he actually tries to do some good for the rest of us when he has power. But he still is who he is.
Once again, Zal, you’re completely off the mark. If you actually read what I wrote instead of what you wanted to see, you would have seen that I said it was my hope that Clinton would swipe at Obama, but I fully didn’t expect it. What I did expect was for him to outshine him (which he did). If you can take your head out of your ass and read my comments in this thread, you will also learn what took me by surprise. I do have to commend you on your persistent narcissism, though. You haven’t budged an inch in that regard.
Anthony, I have a sneaking suspicion it didn’t sit well with Hillary either.
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