Rancor. Scott Pelley called last night’s debate the most rancorous ever. As far as I can remember – he’s correct. The ugliness of the campaign got uglier. This reflects rather precisely exactly where we are now as a society.
Second guessing the inner working of the “undecideds” minds is dangerous – though I do it all the time. Here I’d guess that while Obama “won” by being engaged. He once again supplied no vision for a 2nd term. Romney presents as a viable President with a plan. The plan itself is less important than the fact that it appears to exist. I have to wonder if the “undecideds” will break for Romney based on this simple dynamic: Obama, no vision/Romney, a plan.
Interesting point. In both the CNN poll of registered voter and CBS poll of undecided voters, Obama won by a 6-7% margin with a sizable amount in each calling the debate a draw.
In CBS, Romney beat Obama on economy. In CNN poll, I think Romney beat Obama in every category – economy, taxes, leadership, etc. That kind of bears out your supposition – even though Obama may win on style, Romney is giving these folks the belief he is heavy on substance.
Now the nail biting for several days waiting to see what, if any difference this debate makes in polls. By the time we find out it will be time for next Monday’s foreign policy debate. Nervous.
The book of faces is all a flutter with binder this binder that.
Tumbler, too.
Here are a few of them:
http://www.eonline.com/photos/6454/mitt-romney-s-binders-full-of-women-memes/224872?&_suid=135048778270708297876387368888
Another thing that confirms right-wing brains totally diff than obamabot-wing brains.
I heard that binders comment twice and never thought anything of it – binders full of women’s resumes, cool! – until I checked twitter blowing up. I just don’t get all this woman stuff – I’m a woman and I think the war on women crap is demeaning to women.
I love this whole clip – I love all West Wing clips! – but if you don’t want to see the whole thing, watch from 4:35. It’s good and you’ll like it.
I’m a fairly far left feminist, Greyledge Gal, and I don’t get it either.
Proof the progs got *nothing* — Big Bird, dishes & binders is *all* they have.
Of course, they actually think Ledbetter Act — which only extends time to file wage discrimination lawsuit (for men & women), thus only helps attorneys — guarantees “equal pay,” that the US Tax Code *actually* provides “tax breaks” for companies to move jobs overseas and that high gas prices means the economy is doing well.
No wonder they think Obama “won.”
Why did Crowley pick this question? Why didn’t she fact-check the “72%” claim before selecting it, as she obviously fact-checked the Benghazi question?
I bet she figured it gave an advantage to barry. Yet I heard Romney talk about how he’d gone out of his way to hire women (pro-actively breaking the glass ceiling), and barry talking YA about HIS family, the ever-morphing story of Toots at the bank.
obama also fibbed when he said Planned Parenthood gives mammograms. They don’t. They do give out free contraceptives, a fact Sandra Fluke might be shocked to learn.
Most of those “binders” Tumblr entries are hilarious.
It’ll vanish by the weekend to be replaced by another equally inane.
JWS, I agree with your prediction.
In the 1st debate, Romney made himself look like an effective replacement POTUS; in the second, he made Obama look like an ineffective POTUS.
if MR succeeds in the third debate it’ll be because he’ll make BO look like an ineffective CinC.
I’m stealing that.
Have at it. I’m flattered. (Caution though, if necessary: I’ve already tweeted the first sentence.)
that’s good NES! especially the last part.
He already is an ineffective CinC, NES. How anyone could think otherwise is a mystery.
If you look at videos of the Luntz focus group, Romney came out well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hReSVeB9QC0
Love this one in the Luntz group: “Obama’s been bullsh*tting us for 4 years”
Even MSNBC’s “undecideds” broke for Romney:
I have a really pressing question – is Big Bird a boy or a girl?
Doesn’t wear pants so it should be easy to tell.
Rofl. Big Bird is the ‘Pat’ of the kiddie world.
you know what? i have no clue if big bird is a boy or a girl either… hmmm. all those years with sesame street and i do not know…
I never saw any eggs — who pays for Big Bird’s contraception?
The voice is fairly male. More male than many of the men I’m around on a daily basis, at least.
ROFL! Interesting. Never gave it much thought- but then I am so dense I never once in all the years my kids watched thought anything about Ernie and Bert being room mates. They were just Bert and Ernie. Then a couple of years ago there was some stupid thing about Sesame St “pushing the gay agenda” cuz those two were supposedly gay? All I could think was “Really? I missed that all those years?”
Big Bird is a boy.
Someone once asked one of the muppeteers about Bert and Ernie being gay and he replied that they are puppets and do not exist below the waist.
We can all rest easy now. Hollywood’s most influential person has weighted in for barry.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/honey-boo-boo-endorses-obama_654673.html
The gas prices comment from Obama was bizarre:
Yep they should have continued a downward spiral.
He could have just said it was because of global demand, his answer was stupid. Of course he didn’t answer the question he never does.
Pulled that one straight out of his ass, and it sounded real stupid.
On the other hand, what could he say? ‘Listen, there are many factors involved in gas prices, most out of the control of the president. But over the past four years, under my brilliant guidance, we’ve expanded SOLAR with start-ups like Solyndra and Beacon, WIND with um, um, that plant I visited that mostly makes sailboats, and BIO-DIESEL, like the chinese place we ordered take-out from during my debate prep.’
Obama’s answer was hilarious. My friend said, “I hear him talking but is he saying anything?” I wonder if they didn’t coach him with a response or if he garbled it, or if nobody on his team could even come up with anything that made sense. He probably should have just lied, as Romney did. Truth is, gas prices are never coming down significantly again. This is it, kids.
LOL. My dog ate the gas prices.
Oddly, I’ve made scores of decisions this political season. All of them leave me with nobody to vote for. Is that undecided?
I wonder how many of the “Undecideds” are really planning on going third-party. I was just robo-polled, and the only options were Obama, Romney, and Undecided. It all comes down to polling methodology.
Exactly. You are not “Undecided” if you have decided that neither Obama nor Romney deserves your vote. We should be called “Unconsenting” or “Unimpressed.”
Most undecideds stay home.
I think this “undecided” stuff is crap. I mean, come on – if you are someone who wants to get on t.v. or make yourself important, do you tell a pollster who you are voting for, or do you say you are undecided even when you decidedly are not. If I was a conspiracy theorist, I’d even say Obama supporters are telling people they are undecided so they can get on the tee-vee and say negative things about Romney. But, I’m not. I do think they are complete attention hogs. And, at this point, I DO NOT believe anyone is undecided at all.
Exactly, run, and it’s a lame claim. I would be embarrassed to admit/say out loud on teevee that I was still undecided 21 days prior to a presidential election. However, on November 4, 2008, in the privacy of my small cube, in the write-in field of a computer screen, I typed Hill … hit clear … typed Hil … hit clear, again … and, then, with the thought that I had already voted for Hillary twice (in Texas: primary and caucus) I went with McCain – my first Republican vote in 12 presidential elections. But if anyone had asked, I wouldn’t have admitted to being undecided, I just found it a little difficult to cast my first ever Republican vote. On November 6, 2012, it will be easy.
Lynn – I understand your pain. But, to proper’s point above, you weren’t really undecided, you basically knew what you had to do. You just didn’t want to acknowledge that the world had come to this.
Right dmc, it’s the infamous fifteen minutes , is it not ? Maybe they don’t want to admit they just don’t give a damn.
Regardless of what motivates “undecideds,” they never bode well for the incumbent. One of the political hacks on TV described it as being like asking someone if they planned to stay married to their spouse. If you’re “undecided,” the odds don’t favor the spouse.
In case anybody hasn’t seen it and is interested.
Hillary Clinton on Benghazi attack:
I am “undecided.” In the sense that I will wait til election day to make my choice. If Ohio is solidly going to Obama or Romney, I will vote for Stein. If we are polling close, Mr. Romney will get my vote. There are a host of reasons that I’m a holdout. As a swing state voter, I will remain “undecided” until the day I enter the polling booth. I reserve that right ;~)
But, then you aren’t actually undecided. What you have described above is a decision. I can appreciate it. What I can’t appreciate are people who truly don’t know what they are going to do one way or the other.
Re: the undecideds;; the conversation around our house has been about a fear that O will go bomb something so he can look brave before the next debate..I so distrust him, I think he would do this, and not lose a wink of sleep over the death and destruction that could result from such an act.
I think you can count on his drones attacking alleged terrorist camps in Eastern Libya before the election. Eat dog, wag dog.
I am so glad I have no idea who Honey Boo Boo is.
Stay gold, freedom fairy! Stay gold!
Thanks, Pony boy
Ha, ha, Lynn — I was hoping someone got it.
I was thinking Golden Girls and those t-shirts that say “Stay Golden”.
A good one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARintSTCWw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Lookee here…our brave leader deflects responsibility yet again (after feigning to take it on, under compulsion from Romney and the questioner), and directly balmes persons at Foggy Bottom. Also, he admits he delayed calling Benghazi a terrorist attack. What a guy!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/presidential-debate-libya-questioner-says-obama-didnt-answer/2012/10/17/7109898e-1867-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html
[excerpt]
“President Obama, though, wasn’t done with Kerry Ladka. “After the debate, the president came over to me and spent about two minutes with me privately,” says the 61-year-old Ladka, who works at Global Telecom Supply in Mineola, N.Y. According to Ladka, Obama gave him ”more information about why he delayed calling the attack a terorist attack.” For background, Obama did apparently lump Benghazi into a reference to “acts of terror” in a Sept. 12 Rose Garden address. However, he spent about two weeks holding off on using the full “terrorist” designation. The rationale for the delay, Obama explained to Ladka, was to make sure that the “intelligence he was acting on was real intelligence and not disinformation,” recalls Ladka.
As to Ladka’s question about who turned down the Benghazi security requests and why, Obama reportedly told him that “releasing the individual names of anyone in the State Department would really put them at risk,” Ladka says.”
I’ve already voted and I’m still undecided.
Also: I’m more convinced that this is all about Ohio now. And just southern Ohio at that. Unless he chokes on Monday it would not surprise me if MR pulls off FLA, NC, and Virginia. I suspect Nevada is fading for BHO as well regardless of the polls. This is about Ohio now.
Also: the binder moment turned out to be what I thought it would be – an orgy of obama pod silly, some of which was quite funny.
Also: I agree that gas prices are never really coming down much again…unless there is a total collapse.
John, you tease…so can you say who you voted for? No pressure, obviously, just if you feel comfortable disclosing….
John, I vote in a swing state, as I see it we don’t get to be ‘undecided’ or even vote 3rd party in any meaningful way, under the current system..
I voted in NY most of my life and always voted Democrat, so naturally I was ok with it being a blue state. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I recognize how frustrating our electoral college system must be for Independents, or just folks who change their minds now and then. I have read pieces advocating for a general nationwide popular vote, and dumping the electoral college, that idea seems filled with hooks, imo, but perhaps one whose time has come.
I’ve read so many comments about the debate, my scrolling finger hurts, but I’ve not seen this addressed, perhaps I missed it.
When O called out to Candy to read the transcript, nobody blinked, why the heck would the moderator even Have a transcript? Is this a common practice in debates ?
Obama didn’t say, “read the transcript.”
Romney said, “I want to make sure we get that for the record, because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror.” And in response to that Obama said, “Get the transcript.” It’s unclear to whom Obama addressed that line but given the context, and the inflection of Obama’s voice, it could as likely be directed to Romney or to the audience.
Romney begins speaking around 1:13:30
But what has not been addressed here is that Candy didn’t simply support Obama’s having said, “act of terror” in the Rose Garden, she then went on to hand Romney the talking point narrative he was stumbling to frame, gave him time to deliver it, and as Romney tries to deliver it she verbally affirms what he’s trying to say. As soon as Obama rises from his seat and crosses to join Romney and Crowley, Romney goes into full stumble mode and completely ruins his own moment.
Obama bested him, that’s just what happened. And as that exchange shows, Obama is not a formidable opponent.
Candy should have stayed out of it.
I believe this was a ‘tell’ that somebody fed the obama camp the questions before the debate. Crowley and barry were too in sync, too prepared for the exchange. Of all the pressers obama has given, and Crowley memorized that one?
obama told several whoppers in the debate. Not once did Crowley say ‘no sir, natural gas production is down 14%’.
I might buy that if this specific issue hadn’t been so widely discussed in the days leading up to the debate. Especially with Hillary taking responsibility and the protestations following that (like the McCain/Graham statement I saw copy and pasted everywhere). We all knew the question would come up. Nobody had to feed the Obama camp anything for them to know it’d be a question.
Not obama’s preparedness for the question, rather the way obama and Crowley were in sync.
imust said it most succinctly: Candy should’ve stayed out of it.
Since she didn’t, she takes the lumps for it. I bet she regrets it now.
Zal, you and I saw the same debate.
She doesn’t.
She regrets people fail to notice she tried to help Romney immediately after setting the record straight about the words Obama used in the Rose Garden.
She says she was trying to move the discussion to the point you and others wanted it to be about, that Romney was getting stuck on wording, the two were going back and forth, and her intent was to end that and give Romney a chance to make his larger point.
Agreed, I know I heard her read from the transcript, the whole episode was off putting.
this is fascinating in a very sad way:
http://reason.com/blog/2012/10/04/pictures-of-afghanistan-in-the-fifties-a
Well that’s interesting. Watch the video I posted above, and I posted the time this exchange happened so you can go right to it, and tell me where you hear her read from the transcript.
Fact is, she didn’t read from the transcript. She says, “he did, in fact, call it an act of terror,” and she was looking at Romney and Obama as she said it. (And to be precise, in the transcript he didn’t call it an act of terror, he said, “acts of terror,” which nudges the needle toward indicating she didn’t have the transcript in front of her.)
here it is:http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2012/10/17/obama-tells-candy-crowley-get-the-transcript-she-reads-from-transcript-during-debate-on-act-of-terror-to-correct-romneys-claim-video/
From that video, Crowley is flipping through pages as the candidates spoke, then waves a piece of paper when she assets ‘he did call it an “act of terror”‘. I think it’d be good question to ask of Crowley whether she had a crib sheet on that point, was referring to it at that moment, and if so, what prompted her to prepare in that way for that question.
We also see how, just as Romney is sorting it out and asks about the youtube story, obama gets into Romney’s personal space, pushes in front of him and approaches Crowley with a fairly aggressive vibe & hand gesture, and essentially orders Crowley to move on, which she does.
Crowley explains:
“The president kept looking at me, going you … and I thought, well, I did know that, I said, he, you, he did, call it an act of terror.”
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/17/cnns-crowley-first-plays-umpire-then-joins-team-obama/?intcmp=obnetwork#ixzz29fdA7wg5
It takes a strong person to withstand the scowl of am angry sociopath.
I didn’t find Crowley biased at all. The Benghazi issue was clearly something she could have had notes on, since it would most likely come up.
Crowley picked the questions, so she knew every subject that would come up. Why didn’t she correct obama when he lied about natural gas production, Planned Parenthood, Romney’s statements, etc.?
Cuz she be an obama ho, is why.
I think you’re wrong Tamer.
What am I wrong about — that Crowley only fact-checked one fact all night, or that she is an obama supporter?
Oh! I thought you were saying that she was biased for Obama in the debate. I guess I misunderstood the point of your comment, since you’ve only given me two options to choose from and the bias issue isn’t among them.
You’re wrong that she only fact checked one fact all night. And it’s in that clip conner posted.
Immediately after affirming what Obama had said, she affirmed the larger point Romney made — which was the point conner and NES and run and others here were so eager to have made. Crowley gave both Romney and Obama one affirmation. Unfortunately for Romney he didn’t use the opportunity she gave him to effectively drive home his point.
Body language is always fascinating, isn’t it ?
In the Real world, Crowley would be flipping burgers next to Susan Rice in Vienna Va. and they would be sharing a van down by the river.
The question they should both be asking now is ‘what if’ ? What if their little boy loses, how does the future look for them? Unfortunately, we now live in a world of no consequences, at least not until blood is shed, and maybe not even then.
Am going into ‘Hillary We hardly Knew Ye mode”..I admire her guts and her life, at least up until recently. The Hillary who has emerged lately would not get my hours of work again, nor my vote.
Yet Bill is still out stumpin’ for O, taking emotional detachment to a whole new level. Jarrett must have some new dirt on both of them.
Nice rebuttal to the ‘binders’ rigamarole, delivered by Romney’s lt.-governor:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/17/women-including-ex-cabinet-members-rally-around-romney-binder-project/
Utterly inane. No one can even say with any specificity how the comment is sexist. I hired a woman once in large part because she came to the interview with a binder full of reference letters and sample work.
Also astroturfed. 98,000 tweets on ‘binders’, 98,000 on ‘Lily Ledbetter’, 98,000 on ‘Big Bird.’ Truth Teamer today; Kommisar tomorrow.
It’s just confirmation bias run amok, and I find it VERY annoying.
Perhaps the legal brains here will correct me, but as I understand Lily Ledbetter only extends the time people can sue for their employer’s past transgressions. It doesn’t guarantee anything beyond that.
You are right, conner.
Obama supporters truly believe things like this! http://washingtonexaminer.com/chris-matthews-is-challenging-obama-unconstitutional/article/2511086
“I don’t think [Romney] understands the Constitution of the United States,” Matthews said. “He’s the president of the United States. You don’t say, ‘You’ll get your chance.’”
There’s no other way to say it: Chris Mathews is a little nazi fuck.
I honestly hope there’s an explanation for this. Never would have thought I’d EVER unfavorably compare HRC’s perspective on women in workplace to Romney who created flexibility for his staff like his chief of staff http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82586.html
Run..I too am shocked, maybe she had a migraine that day..Hillary and I are close in age, she has looked absolutely exhausted and out of shape for the last 3 plus years.
I thought she looked great during her campaign, her job has aged her.
Yes – she looks unwell, tired and worried. Another Obama-related tragedy.
Tam, I see what you’re saying but none of it is remotely conclusive and, bottom line, everybody was talking about it in the days leading up to the debate so somebody with Candy Crowley’s interest and dedication would not only be originally familiar with but, almost certainly, have read Obama’s Rose Garden transcript again. Whether or not it was a terrorist attack, and the White House’s delay in acknowledging it, was all the buzz, so that word is memorable.
I’ve watched the tape, that portion of it, a few times now and Obama and Crowley don’t seem to be in sync. The whole looks very clearly to be three people each with their own job to do, struggling to gain control.
I read body language for a living. It’s just a feel, just a hunch; I could well be wrong.
What can be documented is the following. Crowley:
* Chose 7 of 11 questions that were ostensibly anti-Romney;
* Gave obama 3 1/2 minutes more time to talk (cuz he “talk slower” sez CNN);
* Let obama have the last word on 8 of the 11 questions;
* Cut Romney off when he brought up the youtube fable and also Fast & Furious;
* Did not admonish the audience when they applauded for obama.
Almost forgot — Crowley:
* Interrupted Romney 28 times, obama 9 times.
You could be right, Tam. As I say, the evidence is inconclusive.
It sounded scripted on the radio, and in the video I saw stuff that caught my eye. I’d have to review the video over & over to confirm, and frankly, I have neither the time nor the interest to do so.
Net result of the debate, regardless of Crowley’s performance, is that Romney edged up yet again today in the polls.
I disagree, Zal, and I actually am curious why you’re flogging this particular horse.
“Interrupted Romney 28 times, obama 9 times.”
Assuming that’s true — Romney overtalked her continuously and Obama did not. That’s the explanation.
For the reasons I’ve given: this was the one hot issue political junkies were buzzing about, everybody expected Romney would try to use it to his advantage and Obama would have to address it. Candy Crowley is a competent 25 year veteran of political news, CNN’s chief political correspondent, and reason suggests she’d take the initiative to be prepared for moderating discussion on the hottest issue.
And even if that included having a copy of the Rose Garden transcript with her, what’s wrong with that? I have lots of criticism for the MSM but being prepared with accurate source material sure isn’t one of them. I’d like to see more of that, not less.
Could the Obama team and Crowley have been in cahoots? Sure. But I haven’t seen anything close to conclusive evidence of it.
“Romney overtalked her continuously and Obama did not. That’s the explanation.”
Chicken & egg, Jay. Romney had to speak over her because she kept cutting him off. All obama had to do was scowl at her, and she gave him as much time as he wanted.
Correction: barry did have to whine at one point about not getting as much time as Romney.
She kept cutting him off because she was supposed to cut him off. Not sure where you’re coming from about this. I’m not going to go back through the entire debate to win this argument with you because I don’t really have much doubt about what I saw or my interpretation of it.