Downplaying the possibility of vote rigging on Tuesday surprises me. Yet, in many quarters it’s given a shrug as possible but not likely. Perhaps I’m a cynic. I think I’m a realist. Of course politicians cheat the system when they can. It’s practically in their DNA. Of course Obama will cheat in Ohio if he can. The Chicago Machine is built on corruption. Dead people voting is just another tactic. Would Romney’s team cheat given the chance? I don’t know. It doesn’t seem like he’s the type, but certainly there are plenty of Republicans who can, have, and will again. Does any reasonable person actually believe Bush got more votes in Florida than Gore? He didn’t. So they stopped counting. Deal done. Case closed.
Can a reasonable person look at the pathologies of Obama’s team and supporters and not presume that cheating is on the agenda? Of course, they’ll cheat. Cheating should be considered an assumption, not a possibility, with Obama’s team.
Obama’s feigned high-handed disgust with the idea that anyone in his White House would lie about the Benghazi attack is the perfect window into how they operate. Pretty much everyone lied in Obama’s White House. He knows this. So Obama self righteously feigns horror at the accusation that anyone lied. That’s how the game is played. How DARE you accuse me of ______!
Why have we heard so much about GOP voter suppression? It’s cover in case they need to cheat. This is not remarkable or even sneaky. It’s obvious. The best defense is a well planned, in your face, offense.
Neither side may need to cheat, of course. But the possibility is high, not low, that it will occur. 2000 was a massive cheat, done in public. We watched it happen. And it worked. What would stop if from occurring again? In fact, it would be easier this time. Media collusion takes care of most of the blow back. Much of the television media wants one candidate to win so badly they’ve thrown off any semblance of balance. I’ll not be surprised if MSNBC calls the election after the first Maine precinct is in. Chris Matthews will tell everyone in Colorado to stay home…it’s over. That’s what they did in 2008 with Clinton. If she lost a primary it was over for her. If she won a primary it was over for her. And if any votes are contested this time the shock troops will be out in force, egged on by television talking heads “reporting” the news of Obama’s sure win and sore loser Romney.
If this happens it ought not surprise anyone who’s paying attention. Lordy, we’re talking about politicians here, Chicago politicians, and a feeble, controlled media. These people lie and cheat like the rest of us breath…with unthinking ease. It’s far less delusional to assume they’ll cheat and be surprised if they don’t.
Not to make you want to puke, but remember Gary Indiana in the dem primary. And they wouldn’t release the damn vote count until somebody called them. Didn’t the *%€££^€ bot politician actually ask how many votes Obama wanted while dragging the count out? Okay, now I wanna puke.
Wouldn’t it be fabulous if the other guy won Illinois? I would smile for a week
One key difference this time: republicans are in power at the state level, and so not as easy to pull it off.
Yes! That reminded me at the time of an accident case my Dad was involved with. He was questioning one of the witnesses, an older gentleman he’d known all his life, and trying to get him to describe the glass spatter direction to prove his client was not at fault. The witness didn’t seem to comprehend and then blurted out: “Well, by Gawd, Kenneth, where do you want the glass?” Not helpful at all – LOL.
Both sides have been lawyering up for months.
Thousands of lawyers. What could go wrong?
That lawyer talk is probably mostly noise. Remember how John Kerry vowed to fight for an honest outcome in 2004 but then instead rushed off to Iraq on a fact-finding mission while the Ohio ballots were still warm?
ObamaNation, cheat? Never! /snark
Of course they’re going to cheat, that’s the very nature of a totalitarian regime and its minions: to rule by force and suppression. I’m just hoping Romney gets enough votes to make up for the ones they steal.
Our early voting experience in S. Fla. has been surreal, hours and hours of waiting on line has been the norm. Two County Supervisors of Elections already have lawyers. One, in my county, allowed voters to get absentee ballots, fill them out on the spot, and turn them in, hours after the polls had closed, and in this case, a full day after early voting had legally ended. As of this a.m. she has a lawyer too.
It has been chaotic all over the region, with large groups of people showing up at polls that are miles from their communities and which have their own early voting polling places.
To the jaded eye, it appears the O’s are spreading groups around the area, in a futile effort to keep them under the radar.
Sorry for being non p.c…but the cheaters are counting on our fear of not getting to be Prom King and Queen..
It’s going to be a race to the finish, which will be the bigger problem – lying & cheating or incompetence.
Both parties have plenty of both, in power and among the rank and file.
You’ve mentioned this a few times, and it has not been lost on my (nor anyone else, imo).
Interesting that on Joe Scarborough’s show this morning, Mika was incessantly talking about voter suppression in Florida, and Joe countered with strident and frequent mentions of (sit down for this) BENGHAZI.
Mika was hammering away about voter disenfranchisement, and Joe asked her if she really wanted to talk about that. She continued without missing a beat (as if ValJar was her ventriloquist), and Joe just started saying “Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!” over and over again, getting louder and louder. When Mika finally finished her diatribe, Joe smiled broadly and said “Benghazi” one more time. Fade to black, commercial break.
Anthony, Surprise, surprise that Joe S. would even dare to mention Benghazi. Stopped watching them when they became the bot media
” large groups of people showing up at polls that are miles from their communities and which have their own early voting polling places.”
Are you saying these people are voting multiple times, or being bused in from out-of-state? What tells you that they’re from elsewhere. Can it be documented and reported?
This is disturbing. It’s what they did in the IA primary.
I just saw on Channel 4 that the absentee boxes are outside so they can just drop off the absentee ballots in Miami-Dade…there does not seem to be any security control…for all they know people have voted and now are coming back for absentee ballots…they are on record saying they have no idea how many absentee ballots they have handed out…
(what is to stop anyone on the inside to just take a bunch of ballots and fill them out if they are not checking them against anything…outrageous)
…and not to mention, Palm Beach is having problems with ballots, so far 27,000, that have not been printed properly…yes, that’s right, ballot problems…again…in Palm Beach…so they machines will not accept them
http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2012-10-30/Another-ballot-problem-found-in-Palm-Beach-County
An absentee ballot can still only be given out to someone registered to vote. The way to cheat is to fill them out for people on the rolls who weren’t going to vote — like the dead, but also ‘unlikely’ voters. If that unlikely voter later does show up to vote in person, the absentee ballot is just tossed, so no risk to the cheaters.
You could also steal absentee ballots out of the mail. Mine never came in 2008, so I had to go to the registrar’s office and cast a provisional in person.
Does someone know if Al Gore was the first presidential candidate to lose his own state (Tennessee)? Would he have won the election then without the Florida debacle?
McGovern lost his home state, South Dakota, to Nixon.
Yes, I’d forgotten that was a blow out election with Nixon winning 49 out of 50 states. Wasn’t paying much attention to elections back then – college took up most of my time and attention.
My mother had a “Don’t Blame Me: I’m From Massachusetts” bumper sticker.
Anthony, sorry if I seem to be ‘harping’ on this, maybe you had to be there. Blue State voters have little idea what goes on in swing states, and how fishy it all looks. It’s hard to describe the scene without being accused of bias, but I worked with these same groups in NY for over 20 years and I know the drill. Who knew you could vote in Fl. with a Work Visa ? It almost appears it is now allowed. Color me unsurprised if Fl. voting results end up in court again, especially if the results are close.
Oh I’m sure blue state voters who’re voting for Romney can understand it. Is jus tha rest a us is two dum ta undrstnd.
Conner – Please don’t apologize. I was commending you on your persistence. Sorry if I wasn’t clear about that. I’m DELIGHTED that someone is letting us know what they’re seeing!
I’m staying off Facebook completely for the next day. My Obot friends are bringing on the crazy big time.
O may get fewer votes in NYC than people think. At my YMHA yesterday there were volunteers with gigantic bags of clothes and supplies for Sandy victims. None were wearing Obama buttons, but a fair number were wearing Romney pins.
Well my FB page is lively with all kinds of bullshit and insults from both Obamabots ‘n Romneites.
It takes a lot of stupid to ruin a nation but it looks like the US will have plenty to pull it off.
Blue State voters know their state is always going to vote Dem. So do the pols, therefore they don’t have to cheat on a massive scale to get the results they want. Stupid may slay us, but it will be helped by Evil.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/04/florida-early-voting_n_2073119.html#slide=1717031
Here’s a new clip CBS released last night from the interview with Obama the day after the Benghazi attack. He was given a chance to call this terrorism and Steve Kroft even called him on avoiding saying it that morning. Obama didn’t push back or say he’d called it that in Rose Garden — nor did he call it terrorism when given the chance in the interview. Yet, that info went up the chain of command at 1:15 a.m. on 9/12/12.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/cbs-releases-footage-of-obama-refusing-to-call-benghazi-a-terror-attack-on-september-12th/
Once upon a time, CBS would have pounced on the chance to show up a rival (Crowley & CNN via extension) by releasing that clip. But now, CBS & CNN aren’t rivals, rather partners in obama’s Ministry of Propaganda.
The ‘GOP voter supression’ meme is off the charts among the progosphere. I received a disturbing email from a MoveOn operative that seemed to urge civil disobedience in the event of a Romney victory.
Whether this is: a) ‘pre-orders’ on sour grapes; b) part of the plan to contest the election; c) a distraction to cover their own vote fraud remains to be seen.
The polls continue to be rigged, which adds to the potential for fraud &/or refusal to accept the outcome. Latest CNN national poll has a 49/49 tie, but with a D+11 and far-too-small indy pct.
Yep- also, rigged polls can cause people to accept a false outcome as “expected”.
My worry, exactly, Kim.
To get the appropriate level of foam at the mouth for the garden variety obot they need to feel the other side is going to be mean to them. Hence repubs are breathing voter suppressors (they inhale clear blue air and exhale mean fire red voter suppression air). This happily jumped on assumption frees the wild eyed obot from all levels of decency and they are freed (with no moral compunctions) to do any freaking heinous thing they can think of to win. Quite the mental gymnastics.
Chris Matthews will call the election for O by noon tomorrow.This could backfire but that never occurs to the true believers.
tamerlane says:
November 5, 2012 at 10:33 am
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tamerlane, I honestly hope you are correct because there is total chaos in south florida – miami/dade, doral area…and as conner mentioned, it appears very suspect who is running things…it looks like a very easy possibility for all kinds of shenighans there…and frankly, this is O territory…
how can they say they don’t even know how many absentee ballots they have given out? the scene looks so chaotic I have my doubts about who is checking what…as you suggest…
it is my understanding that the easiest way to cheat is with absente ballots
channel 4 has done some investigations in this area because of all kinds of problems prior to this weekend
http://miami.cbslocal.com/category/cbs4-investigates/
there have been additional problems in Broward county with people turning in over 400 absentee ballots, complete with felons, etc…and no questions were asked by supervisor brenda snipes….
Florida is ripe and Governor Scott while a repub is useless
So that’s one person delivering ballots for 400 other people. They go around and pressure old people, the homeless, etc. and fill out the ballot for them. Or for the dead. THIS is the ‘early voting’ advantage Mechelle was crowing about.
I see bad things on the horizon.
yes, Tamerlane, if you saw the investigation on Brenda Snipes, election supervisor in Broward, there is one person who has turned in 400 absentee ballots at a time, including with forged signatures and felons…and there were no question asked…when Channel 10 did an investigation they brought it out into the light…Snipes had been warned over a year ago by the Sheriff who told her about forgeries and felons…and she did nothing until pressured and cornered and embarrassed by Channel 10 (you can google that to confirm)…Florida is very ripe for corruption…
Voting debacle in Florida causes chaos, confusion
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/11/05/173564/voting-debacle-in-florida-causes.html#storylink=cpy
If you were committing actual vote-rigging, you’d want to do it surreptitiously. This smells like theatrics to ‘prove’ voter suppression claims.
Good catch.
http://www.examiner.com/article/number-of-112-year-old-registered-democrat-voters-now-at-3-020-north-carolina
article’s a little confusing, but here’s the gist: are the Dems in NC casting ballots for the deceased? Namely persons who registered thirty-odd years ago without giving a DOB, so a default DOB of 1/1/1900 was entered (making them all look 112 years old)? 3/4 of these 112 year olds are reg. Dem; 91% live (sic) in the most Dem county.
Check out weasel zipper’s pic of the day for a laugh (not a photoshop)
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/11/05/pic-of-the-day-127/
So, the final Gallup national poll number is out: R 49%, O 48%, 1% some other candidate, 1% undecided. Looks like O gained 2% as a result of Sandy. WTF! Are people really that dumb. What did O do other than what any prez would be expected to do, ie, visit devastated areas and cut checks? People obviously have very low expectations of this fellow.
John and Tamer: Do you see an explanation for O’s 2-point bounce other than Sandy?
Isn’t bouncing within the margin of error irrelevant?
It’s worse than that – Romney was 51% and Obama was 46% in Gallup’s last polling before Frankenstorm. So 4 points disappeared but only 2 were supposedly reallocated, both of those points to 0? Then in final final gallup it is Romney 50%, Obama 49% as they reallocated the 2 points “equally” to the candidates. That second is not on the front page of Gallup but in a blog post they released later this afternoon to explain their final final methodology. *rolling eyes*
Also in the blog post, Gallup explains that almost all of the rise for Obama comes from the Northeast. In fact, their breakdown has Romney winning the South, Midwest and West and Obama only wins Northeast in pop vote. They also show Obama leading with Catholics where every other poll has Romney leading with them.
Seems like how the engine is really working has been covered under the hood.
Read into this what you will:
http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2012/11/05/Romney-Internals-Show-Him-Up-In-OH-NH-IA-Tied-In-WI-PA
Jay, Romney was leading by 5 in Gallup, pre-Sandy. Most (not all, Im sure) consider that to be outside the margin of error.
Nice link, Tamer. Even if it’s just a head-fake, it’s most excellent because it’ll send Chicago into a little meltdown.
Sandy was a golden photo-op for “Message: I care” O.
I know, but that shouldn’t be enough. People aren’t that dumb, are they?
NES- to answer you question- look who lives in the White House right now.
Yes, people ARE that dumb.
Yes.
Will Obama and team try to cheat? Absolutely. Are they competent enough to cheat on a national level successfully? Absolutely not. And, I personally do not believe the vote margin will be close enough that even competent cheating (which they can’t do) would help them. I think everyone is undercounting the evangelical vote, the catholic vote and the fact that blacks and Hispanics are going to vote in far less #s than people think for Obama. Pair that with independent voters who aren’t among these groups and who are breaking for Romney by margins of 20% or more, I do not believe it will be close.
Remember that this is a crowd who only won through cheating in the primaries when it was easy to cheat – in caucus states. When it wasn’t easy to cheat – in primaries – Obama invariably lost and often lost much bigger than anyone anticipated. (I remember before practically every single primary, the MSM across the board would say that HRC and BHO were tied and it was anyone’s guess who would win and then Obama would lose by a lot. Which of course sent most pundits on MSNBC into shrieking fits that HRC needed to drop out now, NOW, NOW!!!).
In EVERY OTHER important election Obama ran in, he also cheated but also where it was easy – digging up divorce records or scrubbing signatures off the rolls because he knew he was likely to lose in an actual election against a strong opponent and couldn’t rig the votes if his opponent actually was on the ballot on election day.
Basically my thoughts regarding your first paragraph. Cheating will happen, as it always does, but it only works in close enough elections with competent enough players. There are now 12 swing states, and that’s a lot of ground to cover. And Obama’s opponent is ready for it.
I’m hearing both sides today saying that their candidate is going to win with absolute certainty. Should provide us with an awesome post-game show.
Decided to check in on J. Kunstler’s last missive before the election. I wish I hadn’t. He’s decided to vote for Obama again after cataloguing a litany of failures over the last 4 years, b/c: “there’s a better chance that he could get a clue in the next 4 years.” WTF?!! His reasons for not voting for Romney:
“Finally, I just don’t like Mitt Romney. He’s the over-eager twerp in the classroom with his arm always sticking up. He’s the missionary bozo in a necktie ringing your doorbell to sell a fairy-tale cult religion dreamed up in the 1820s by another over-eager con artist. He’s obviously using the national stage to work out his father issues. . . ”
Because of course – why would we ever want to vote for the person who was over-eager, studied hard and knew the answers in class? This is the kind of stupidity that Kunstler himself rails against when he talks about us being a nation of fat, lazy, anti-intellectual slackers who are proud of our ignorance. But he then, displaying a truly impressive lack of self-awareness, says he can’t stand the nerdy, smart kid in class -the “TWERP,” in fact and so will vote for the lazy slacker who inhabits the office and has proved he doesn’t either know how to or wants to do jack shit in the job he’s held for 4 years.
And, here comes the “cult religion” bigotry again because Mormonism is so much more crazy than the religion that Obama claims to believe in. The capper is the “daddy issues” psychobabble. Because NO ONE running for presidency has ever had those. Clinton with the absent father and the womanizing, GWB’s which should be obvious, all the way back to the Adams’, pere et fils . . . . And, of course the man he’s voting for who wrote not 1 but 2 memoirs largely dealing with a father who he barely ever saw, abandoned him practically at birth and who he’s been trying to replace with numerous weird, extreme radicals ever since of course has NOOOOOO daddy issues at . . . Man. When did Kunstler become so delusional?
Run,
I don’t think JHK learned much in the past four years. If he hadn’t touted the zero man last go around, maybe zero would have gotten fewer votes.
His whole post this Monday is filled with vitriol against Romney. While both candidates are creeps, IMO, JHK is only targeting one. I was disappointed with his offering this Monday. Haven’t read the comments yet, but look forward to doing so.
p.s. Also meant to say that if Kunstler really took his peak oil seriously as well as his peak resources, then he would have voted for Jill Stein as a viable altnerative to the two-sides-of-the-same-coin party.